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Howboutthemdawgs

Howboutthemdawgs

5 year old buck +

Two things…I wish I was in an industry that got bailed out everytime we weren’t doing well. The housing market hasn’t exactly been good. Mortgage rates and land plus material cost is insane. Wish the government was here to bail me out. Second, as soon as farm land prices start tanking I’ll believe there’s a slowdown. Till farmers stop scooping up land paying record prices I’m operating under the assumption it’s a strong industry.
 
I get the USDA farm updates and don’t see any bailouts for our drought year. Lots of financing and cost-share programs for drought and flood mitigation. I am currently applying for a steam bank stabilization program. None of these are what I would call bailouts, they are cost shares.
 
I haven't seen any bailouts either just low grain prices for the 5 bushel to the acre beans because of drought and rising fuel and fertilizer prices
 
It’s good for business. Cargil and ADM like to see the farmers one step ahead of insolvency so they can keep bending over backwards to sell them commodities for Pennies per pound when those big guys can then run it thru a factory and shoot it out the other end and sell it for thousands of percent more.

Like crackers. Buy wheat for ten cents a pound, sell the crackers for $20 a pound.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
No doubt sending billions to large corporate farms while the little guys starve.
 
The consumer is in a no win situation. Tax money goes to farm subsidies. No farm subsidies, farmers gonna charge more. Either way, money out of your pocket
 
Electrodigical said:
No doubt sending billions to large corporate farms while the little guys starve.
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GOD Bless smaller, family farmers & farms. We patronize small farms here for much produce - beans, broccoli, tomatoes, corn, cabbage, peppers, potatoes, squash, melons, apples, peaches, plums. Many of those farms are dairy farms as well, so we try to do our part to cut out the middleman/distributor - and keep them afloat. Lots of roadside stands here, & we buy from them! Loads of other people do too - some coming from as far away as Jersey for a 2 hour ride to buy fresh produce at these roadside stands.

Not commercial soybeans or corn, but all land saved from "development" and paving is a big plus to me.
 
I di
Bowsnbucks said:
GOD Bless smaller, family farmers & farms. We patronize small farms here for much produce - beans, broccoli, tomatoes, corn, cabbage, peppers, potatoes, squash, melons, apples, peaches, plums. Many of those farms are dairy farms as well, so we try to do our part to cut out the middleman/distributor - and keep them afloat. Lots of roadside stands here, & we buy from them! Loads of other people do too - some coming from as far away as Jersey for a 2 hour ride to buy fresh produce at these roadside stands.

Not commercial soybeans or corn, but all land saved from "development" and paving is a big plus to me.
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100%. I just think the government bailing any group out when things aren’t great is not a good model. Like I said I want a bailout when the housing market takes a crap like right now. Food, water and shelter…3 basic needs. So a farmer is no more important than someone in housing!
 
I will simply share what I wrote about the subject elsewhere.

"It's understandable - but frightening - that most all of the comments here are misguided and reveal a lack of understanding about food and fiber production and the United States' policy position about the importance of a safe and abundant food supply. We do not yet have a hundred years of farm policy and certain aspects of it are certainly up for debate about the harm or good such policy might do. We should debate a specific policy among many, but the need for such programs is evident.

I would argue we are not directly propping up inefficient production but we are assuring some certainty. Without it both the private and public capital necessary to fund food and fiber production would all but disappear because farming is a risky business. We can and should debate form and substance but we understand that without government support we would spend far more of our earned income on food and there would be much more hunger. The downstream implications of that are disconcerting."
 
Can we not say the same about housing? Is hunger or homelessness a bigger issue in this country? How about people living in insufficient housing who aren’t necessarily homeless? How about people dying to afford their first home and living in less than optimal conditions? I’m playing devils advocate to highlight the bit of hypocrisy in government handouts. Farmers are heros, builders are evil. I know that’s dramatic but we have bumper stickers and concerts and farm bills and bailouts and insurance, all to protect the farmer, and maybe for the better, but if another “essential” industry struggles, screw em.
 
Howboutthemdawgs said:
Can we not say the same about housing? Is hunger or homelessness a bigger issue in this country? How about people living in insufficient housing who aren’t necessarily homeless? How about people dying to afford their first home and living in less than optimal conditions? I’m playing devils advocate to highlight the bit of hypocrisy in government handouts. Farmers are heros, builders are evil. I know that’s dramatic but we have bumper stickers and concerts and farm bills and bailouts and insurance, all to protect the farmer, and maybe for the better, but if another “essential” industry struggles, screw em.
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I'm sorry you feel you're not getting a big enough slice of the pie. What role do you have in the housing industry? Lender, contractor, sub contactor?
There's allot of tax dollars that go towards the housing industry just maybe not into the role you have. FHA loans, government subsidized housing, VA loans.

The problem I have with government bailouts is giving money to industries that haven't been responsibly managed. I think Mary Barra owes me a vehicle>
 
Jerry-B-WI said:
I'm sorry you feel you're not getting a big enough slice of the pie. What role do you have in the housing industry? Lender, contractor, sub contactor?
There's allot of tax dollars that go towards the housing industry just maybe not into the role you have. FHA loans, government subsidized housing, VA loans.

The problem I have with government bailouts is giving money to industries that haven't been responsibly managed. I think Mary Barra owes me a vehicle>
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Sorry i gave the impression I want a bailout or handout, I don’t. But I’m not sure why farmers get one too? Idk if farmers are responsibly managing their operations? Maybe they are. But maybe they are buying land at 15k an acre that won’t pay for itself in 4 generations. Why should you and I pay for those decisions?
 
Howboutthemdawgs said:
Sorry i gave the impression I want a bailout or handout, I don’t. But I’m not sure why farmers get one too? Idk if farmers are responsibly managing their operations? Maybe they are. But maybe they are buying land at 15k an acre that won’t pay for itself in 4 generations. Why should you and I pay for those decisions?
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Believe it or not sometimes the banks are the ones that are telling the farmers they have to get bigger so they can make the payments.

If the profit of the product the farmer produces, corn, soybeans, milk, pigs, beef etc. hasn't gone up with the price of producing the product then you have to produce more of the product to make a livable income. In order to produce more product you need more land, bigger barns etc.

In Wisconsin the "family dairy farm" is becoming a thing of the past. If the farmer doesn't want to get caught in the never ending cycle I described they go out of business. I worked for a farmer when I was in high school. He increased the size of the barn from 50 stanchions to 70 when I worked for him. His son has the farm now and milks about 150 head. The price of milk hasn't kept up with the price of fuel, seed, fertilizer, labor, equipment etc.
 
Jerry-B-WI said:
Believe it or not sometimes the banks are the ones that are telling the farmers they have to get bigger so they can make the payments.

If the profit of the product the farmer produces, corn, soybeans, milk, pigs, beef etc. hasn't gone up with the price of producing the product then you have to produce more of the product to make a livable income. In order to produce more product you need more land, bigger barns etc.

In Wisconsin the "family dairy farm" is becoming a thing of the past. If the farmer doesn't want to get caught in the never ending cycle I described they go out of business. I worked for a farmer when I was in high school. He increased the size of the barn from 50 stanchions to 70 when I worked for him. His son has the farm now and milks about 150 head. The price of milk hasn't kept up with the price of fuel, seed, fertilizer, labor, equipment etc.
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I detest the idea of farms going the way of corporate farms. Physically hate it. But what’s the answer? Keep propping up the individual farmer to protect the nostalgia? Where does it end? I’m somewhat on the side of the farmer for the record but let’s not forget this industry (painting with a broad brush) is the one that has gone from fence row to fence row essentially wiping out quail, developed the most efficient equipment leaving no waste, allowed immeasurable harm with chemicals and erosion, needs financial incentive to do almost anything environmental (crp, streambank mitigation, etc), supports crop depredation permits on native species to protect non native crops, and is selling out the second a developer or corporate farm offers them FU money.
My industry is going the way of giant corporations too. The parallels are almost uncanny. I’m a pimple on a gnats ass compared to public traded behemoths. I’ve yet to get a concert or bumper sticker (I don’t want one for the record!).
I don’t know the answer, I just wonder if taking our money to make sure they stay solvent is the solution?

For the record, I’ve got two farming buddies who are in the Bahamas right now in a $30k air bnb for the week!
 
I truly don't understand this idea that farming = corporate farms. I get it that farms incorporate for tax and business purposes. But, is there really an idea that Apple - just to use a corporation as an example - is calling the shots? Or are we confusing "big" farms with "corporate" farms?
 
FarmerDan said:
I truly don't understand this idea that farming = corporate farms. I get it that farms incorporate for tax and business purposes. But, is there really an idea that Apple - just to use a corporation as an example - is calling the shots? Or are we confusing "big" farms with "corporate" farms?
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Basically non- family farms the way they are traditionally thought of. Outside employees vs all family labor.
 
Ironically I'll bet housing and development have a lot more to do with 15K land than a 10B welfare package does!

This is always a huge debate. I'm against it, and I vote for the people who are supposed to end it, and they usually claim they will, but never do. Yes I'll cash my check. I'm guessing the majority of the landowners on this forum are benefitting, directly or indirectly, from "farmer welfare".

A part of the debate is whether America has a cheap food policy or not. Pretend we do. I'll paraphrase what someone else said. What if the cost per meal goes up $1. Take that by 335 million Americans. Then take that by 3 meals a day, and then by 365 days a year. It makes 10B look kinda small. The US has the most affordable food as percent of income in the world. Of course, if the crap we eat is actually "food" or not is another part of the debate. Personal responsibility would help change that. I'm still ok eating an animal that ate corn. I know some of you are not. I usually avoid the Nabisco and twinkie aisles is more my line.

15K land doesn't take four generations to pay for, around here anyway. Might take a couple. Strong farms tend to have a sense of family. So do the members of this forum.

Almost every industry is subsidized. Could the Dow be at 43K if it wasn't? The stock market thread is a popular place to be. Is that real money, or subsidized, funny money? Does anyone care?

Final comment. Not picking on Dawgs, but seems mean to pick on farmers not being responsible or efficient, and then mention how the machines don't leave enough waste grain in the fields for the animals. Some would say that's unhealthy, bad to grain to eat anyhow. Doing the deer a favor in that case! Don't expect to win em all, or make everyone happy. Envisioning a future where US ag and govt aren't married is probably a waste of time, unfortunately.
 
Mortenson said:
Ironically I'll bet housing and development have a lot more to do with 15K land than a 10B welfare package does!

This is always a huge debate. I'm against it, and I vote for the people who are supposed to end it, and they usually claim they will, but never do. Yes I'll cash my check. I'm guessing the majority of the landowners on this forum are benefitting, directly or indirectly, from "farmer welfare".

A part of the debate is whether America has a cheap food policy or not. Pretend we do. I'll paraphrase what someone else said. What if the cost per meal goes up $1. Take that by 335 million Americans. Then take that by 3 meals a day, and then by 365 days a year. It makes 10B look kinda small. The US has the most affordable food as percent of income in the world. Of course, if the crap we eat is actually "food" or not is another part of the debate. Personal responsibility would help change that. I'm still ok eating an animal that ate corn. I know some of you are not. I usually avoid the Nabisco and twinkie aisles is more my line.

15K land doesn't take four generations to pay for, around here anyway. Might take a couple. Strong farms tend to have a sense of family. So do the members of this forum.

Almost every industry is subsidized. Could the Dow be at 43K if it wasn't? The stock market thread is a popular place to be. Is that real money, or subsidized, funny money? Does anyone care?

Final comment. Not picking on Dawgs, but seems mean to pick on farmers not being responsible or efficient, and then mention how the machines don't leave enough waste grain in the fields for the animals. Some would say that's unhealthy, bad to grain to eat anyhow. Doing the deer a favor in that case! Don't expect to win em all, or make everyone happy. Envisioning a future where US ag and govt aren't married is probably a waste of time, unfortunately.
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Well said. I think we obviously shape an opinion based on our personal connections. I can make a lot of arguments on why the government should prop up the housing market but I would hate that from a philosophical standpoint. I want the government to F off when it comes to private industry. What if they could make a $400k house $340k but taxpayers footed the bill for the difference? I mean people would be better off and we would have cheaper housing. Builders and those associated would do very well with the policy. Would the public feel like it was money well spent on their taxes to have cheaper houses and fat and happy builders? Idk maybe they would.
I hope farmers are very successful but the poor farmer mantra and the sales pitch about saving the family farmer at the taxpayer expense has run its course for me personally. And here’s the thing…I’d trade places all day long with a farmer! Looks like an awesome way to spend a life.
 
Westwind said:
Related, I found this interesting.

podcasts.apple.com

How the Supermarket Helped America Win the Cold War (Update)

Podcast Episode · Freakonomics Radio · 12/09/2024 · 39m
podcasts.apple.com podcasts.apple.com
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I too found this interesting. Although I have studied and participated in everything that we seem to think is wrong with ag today this is the first time I heard the "supermarket angle." Because my life has revolved around the outside of ag and participated inside both as a producer and something of a renowned (LOL!) local policy "expert" - I have drunk from the poison well.

I tend to believe ever changing farm policy has served society adequately. It's not perfect and we need to debate, intelligently debate, the future of it. In its current form there is both good and bad. Which-is-which requires some value judgement and my values will as I have expressed above be different than yours. I heard a journalist once describe all government as legalized corruption with the party (and I don't care which ones) in power deep into our pockets. I have come to understand the statement.

But, I am left to wonder - because there are no answers - what we would look like if there was no farm policy. Would we still have more than half of the population subsistence farming, struggling to feed only themselves and perhaps a few others? Without the industrialization of agriculture would we have been free to grow the economy as it has? I wonder what kind of picture forms in the minds of people not involved in agriculture that people form when they hear the words "corporate farming" and "industrialization."

The science and technology driving industrialization has freed innovative and entrepreneurial people to leave farming and engage in more productive endeavors.
Last time I looked farm production was about 5.5% of our massive gross national product compared to 23% before the great depression. In other words we were still very much a rural and agrarian economy. And if you idolize that you are very much delusional. As it was practiced in the past was hard for most people and failure was frequent.

While I suspect most of you have never experienced food insecurity it wasn't that long ago that many households had bare cupboards. My mother and father were depression area children. I honestly believe my mother married my father because, farming in the style of the time, he did not know a hungry day. My father's motives were, ummm, well - understandable?

If you are of the opinion that our food choices today are unhealthy and/or that how we produce food today leaves us short of nutrition think about that time not all that long ago when the food choices were much shorter than they are now. Think about having no choice and how that might affect one's health - physical and mental.

That we can have this discussion and be so far removed from the subject is, I think, possible because of how we have done what we have done. And you might not be able to do what you do without having done what we have done.

Going forward we can do better. I am not encourage by the current political climate...but I have never been this old before!

Now it is time to eat, drink and enjoy our bounty! Merry Christmas!
 
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