Another rookie question about timing no-till.

[wisconsinteacher]

You can tell I'm a rookie with this. I have another question about no-till plots and timing.

I'm planning on doing the no-till method this year by planting buckwheat and then killing/smashing it to plant my fall plants. My hope it to have brassica on one side and winter rye on the other. Knowing I need to plant the brassica in early Aug, and the winter rye in early Sept. can I successfully let the buckwheat grow an additional 3-4 weeks on the winter rye side or will it get too tall and cause issues? I also am wondering about spraying the buckwheat on the winter rye side. Will it kill the brassicas that are a month old with over spray if it happens? Or would I be better off not spraying and just crushing buckwheat?

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

Buckwheat will produce viable seed fairly quickly, so you might get a bunch of volunteer buckwheat if you let it mature and then smash it. If the mature buckwheat is left standing the birds will take care of most of the viable seed for you. I don't like spraying more frequently than necessary, so I would probably broadcast both the brassicas and rye into the standing buckwheat in early August. Then immediately after planting I would spray the buckwheat, hope for rain and let the brassica and rye take over. You could add a little brassica in your rye for a little variety as well.

 

[35-acre]

Saw your post on another forum. This is the better place to ask these questions (IMO. This was my reply there:

Buckwheat is a very "fragile" plant. It will live longer in better climates but you can just drag it down with a harrow rake, chain link, run over it with the ATV, mow it or whatever. Once you knock it down, you should be in good shape.

The drawback of buckwheat is that it because it's so fragile and leafy, it doesn't leave as much organic matter on the top that you might hope for using a no-till/throw-and-mow(roll)/soil building strategy. I tried it for my first no-till (against advice), but it was on bare ground that had been recently bulldozed. It came up great - and the bees! I'll never forget the sound of the whole field buzzing with so many getting after the flowers (hence my avatar)!

Once I planted into the Buckwheat and then knocked it down, 2 weeks later there wasn't much protecting the seeds like you would get if it were wheat or rye. If you've ever seen a new lawn planted, where they cover the seed with hay and/or moss - that's sort of what you're trying to do with this type of no-till strategy. The overall goals to (1) always have something growing and (2) increase your organic matter by rolling/crimping/etc. that crop on top of the next. It basically turns the top of the ground into a compost of dead material that then bring in bugs and worms and creates a good bed for the next seed to grow in.

I'm no expert. I try like hell but I keep learning. This year I'm going into rye with clover and chicory just to have something that requires a little less time. The only reason it will be a success (finger crossed) is because I've done about 7-8 years of T&M. So I've now got some organic matter on top of the clay for things to grow in.

Good luck! Have fun!

 

[PatinPA]

If it were me I'd plant the whole thing in brassica and overseed with rye September. I planted some buckwheat last year. It worked ok. It didn't come in very thick either. I ended up weed whacking mine because I only have a mulcher mower and didn't want to mulch it. Let me tell you what, you want to make a mess. Weed whack buckwheat in July. haha what a mess. I was covered head to toe. I think rye works better as a thatch like 35-acre said.

 

[wisconsinteacher]

I forgot to add, that currently, I have winter rye on the entire 1 acre plot. Maybe I should let that grow until I'm ready to plant the brassica side and then kill half of it. From there, seed more rye into the existing rye around Labor Day and go from there.

 

[trapperm]

I’ve done similar to that 2 years in a row in Northern Mn and have decided on a different approach for 2022.

Year 1 the buckwheat grew to around waist high, I broadcasted brassicas into the whole thing and rolled the buckwheat flat finally ending it with a spray of glyphosate.

Fast forward about 3 weeks or so and you would have a hard time believing me that it looked so nice initially due to the lack of straw/mulch. I tried again last summer and got the same results on my sand soils.

Last fall after a failure i seeded everything heavy in cereal rye and am going to let that grow and plant into it similar to what I had hoped to do with the buckwheat.

The attached pics here are of the 2020 planting season.

 

[wisconsinteacher]

Maybe using the rye as a smother crop will work?

 

[trapperm]

Maybe using the rye as a smother crop will work?

Knowing what I know now, I would let your rye go and use that instead of the buckwheat.

 

[wisconsinteacher]

Thanks trapperm.

Here is a potential timeline that I think might work.

Let winter rye grow from spring until July 20-Aug 1 (depending on forecast)-At that time, seed brassica into 1/2 of plot, roll, spray if needed.

Around September 1, reseed the other 1/2 with winter rye, roll.

September 10-17 add more winter rye to the rye side.

Again, just a thought. I know a lot has to do with rain and weather but in a perfect world, would this work?

 

[trapperm]

Thanks trapperm.

Here is a potential timeline that I think might work.

Let winter rye grow from spring until July 20-Aug 1 (depending on forecast)-At that time, seed brassica into 1/2 of plot, roll, spray if needed.

Around September 1, reseed the other 1/2 with winter rye, roll.

September 10-17 add more winter rye to the rye side.

Again, just a thought. I know a lot has to do with rain and weather but in a perfect world, would this work?

The theory is valid. Instead of leaving half of the plot un planted, you should plant oats or clover or something in it so the ground is being utilized 100% of the time.

I would let the rye grow until fall planting (your July 20-Aug 1 reference). Plant half in brassicas and half in something else, then roll/spray.

Once September rolls around cover the whole thing in rye again so you will be ready again next year to do the same thing if you want to.

 

[wisconsinteacher]

Good catch on the unused ground. I missed that. Planting oats in July 20- Aug 1 would provide some tender food until I broadcast winter rye in early Sept.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I'm converting a fair bit of old grassy pasture into throw and roll/mow food plots this year. I had intended to get a good herbicide kill and maybe prescribed fire on the sod and plant buckwheat in early summer - based on some of the feedback here, is there a better option than buckwheat for throw and roll?

 

[chucker66]

Good catch on the unused ground. I missed that. Planting oats in July 20- Aug 1 would provide some tender food until I broadcast winter rye in early Sept.

Or just don't roll that side and leave the rye standing until Sept 1st. What you are planning is basically what I do except I put the whole plot in brassicas, and the come back Sept 1st with another 50 to 75 lbs of rye on this 3/4 acre plot.

 

[wisconsinteacher]

I found Jeff Sturgis' post on splitting the plot. It looks similar to what you guys are saying.


This is for a 1 acre plot.

He says 1/4 acre of brassica blend and 3-4# of tillage radish--Aug 1

The other 1/2 acre 25# oats, 50# winter peas, 5# red clover--Aug 1 Then reseed 100# of winter rye around Sept 1.

I like this idea better than killing my winter rye I have and planting buckwheat and killing it. I will let my winter rye go until I'm ready to plant in Aug.

 

[Skeeter]

I found Jeff Sturgis' post on splitting the plot. It looks similar to what you guys are saying.


This is for a 1 acre plot.

He says 1/4 acre of brassica blend and 3-4# of tillage radish--Aug 1

The other 1/2 acre 25# oats, 50# winter peas, 5# red clover--Aug 1 Then reseed 100# of winter rye around Sept 1.

I like this idea better than killing my winter rye I have and planting buckwheat and killing it. I will let my winter rye go until I'm ready to plant in Aug.

Be aware that if you let your rye go that long it will likely produce viable seed.

 

[wisconsinteacher]

I will keep an eye on it and kill it before it goes to seed.

If the deer hit it like they did this fall, I won't have to worry about it seeding out! (I doubt they will hammer it like they did in Sep-Nov.)

 

[PatinPA]

I will keep an eye on it and kill it before it goes to seed.

If the deer hit it like they did this fall, I won't have to worry about it seeding out! (I doubt they will hammer it like they did in Sep-Nov.)

My rye is usually pretty sparse in the spring because it gets eaten to the ground every fall. I only have small kill plots though, not a whole bunch of food. I'm thinking of broadcasting some rye this spring just to fill in the gaps and keep the weeds from taking over.

 

[35-acre]

I'm converting a fair bit of old grassy pasture into throw and roll/mow food plots this year. I had intended to get a good herbicide kill and maybe prescribed fire on the sod and plant buckwheat in early summer - based on some of the feedback here, is there a better option than buckwheat for throw and roll?

Absolutely. If you're really looking to Throw and Roll/Mow, don't burn. You want that stuff to stay on the ground and provide cover and nutrients to the seeds you broadcast into it. If you read this thread fomr the start there are a lot of detractors to Buckwheat (myself included).

 

[MN guy]

I’ve done similar to that 2 years in a row in Northern Mn and have decided on a different approach for 2022.

Year 1 the buckwheat grew to around waist high, I broadcasted brassicas into the whole thing and rolled the buckwheat flat finally ending it with a spray of glyphosate.

Fast forward about 3 weeks or so and you would have a hard time believing me that it looked so nice initially due to the lack of straw/mulch. I tried again last summer and got the same results on my sand soils.

Last fall after a failure i seeded everything heavy in cereal rye and am going to let that grow and plant into it similar to what I had hoped to do with the buckwheat.

The attached pics here are of the 2020 planting season.

Just saw this thread. I am wondering how your Rye thatch layer turned out and how seeding into that and then rolling it worked? Thanks!