Allegheny Chinkapins / Chinquapins

[Bowsnbucks]

I saw Native Hunter posted about Allegheny Chinkapins in another thread. Can anyone growing them or having them naturally in their area, comment on them here?? I'm not familiar with them, and Native said they're a good food source (I believe him!!). Online info only goes so far ..... hands-on info sheds better light. What kind of soil, light conditions, shade tolerance, growth rate ...... etc. for those familiar.

Thanks.

 

[yoderjac]

I have them growing native at my place. For some reason, they take more of a bush form for me than for Native Hunter. They are a great food source but not a great hunting attraction. The produce lots of small nuts but they are all gone by the time our archery season starts in early Oct. Mine mostly drop in September and are cleaned up by every living animal. Squirrels, chipmunks, turkey, deer, you name it eats them. They are small but very chestnut like (same family).

My trees do get blight. They respond to it by dying back and resprouting from the root system. That may account for my more bush like form. At any rate, unlike chestnut trees, it only takes a year or two after resprouting to begin to produce nuts again. They respond to fire the same way, dying back, and resprouting. They are great wildlife tree.

I've propagated them using rootmakers. Unlike chestnuts they don't need to be cold stratified. I store them in baggies with no medium in the fridge crisper to keep them suspended until it is time to plant them. I've started them indoors under lights. I've also, just taken a bag full of nuts and walked through an old field, poking holes, dropping them in, and stepping in them in the fall. Since they are a great food source, but not available during the season, the locations they grow is unimportant to me so I don't place them strategically.

My soil is heavy clay, but I don't think they are limited to that. They do well in full sun, but I find them growing natively as understory along roads and trails where they get some light. I don't find them in teh middle of pine stands where the canopy is heavy. They are not fast growers, but I've had propagated trees produce nuts after the second year in the field.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Native Hunter]

Bows, here are a few facts for you and a picture of a few that have been in my fridge all winter.

* They are very shade tolerant and will easily grow and make good crops at the edge of a woods. Chestnuts, however, require a lot of sun.
* Chestnuts have three nuts per bur, but Allegheny Chinkapins have one nut per bur.
* Common Chinese Chestnuts will be done on my place by mid October, but my Chinkapins will be falling right into mid to late November.
* They will grow in very dry ground once the roots are established. They wouldn't be a good choice for a wet spot.
* Some grow more as bushes and other grow more as upright small trees. I have some that are over 25 feet tall.
* The nuts are easy to sprout. Some years I have seen them making a radical before they fell from the bur.
* Some strains are very resistant to chestnut blight. I have never seen any blight on the ones I grow, but I have heard of others dying back and then coming back from the roots.
* A good link: https://plants.usda.gov/DocumentLibrary/factsheet/pdf/fs_capu9.pdf

I wish I had planted these sooner. The reason for holding off so long was that I was afraid of blight, but now it looks like it won't be a problem for us.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Native -
They look like mini-chestnuts or hazelnuts. I'll read the info in the link you posted. We also have 4 Chinese chestnut trees planted 3 years ago that are starting to take off growth-wise. No burrs yet to determine drop times here.

 

[yoderjac]

Native -
They look like mini-chestnuts or hazelnuts. I'll read the info in the link you posted. We also have 4 Chinese chestnut trees planted 3 years ago that are starting to take off growth-wise. No burrs yet to determine drop times here.

They taste very much like chestnuts...quite sweet. Instead of having 3 per bur like native says with a flat side, they are essentially round.

 

[Native Hunter]

Native -
They look like mini-chestnuts or hazelnuts. I'll read the info in the link you posted. We also have 4 Chinese chestnut trees planted 3 years ago that are starting to take off growth-wise. No burrs yet to determine drop times here.

Mini-chestnuts is a great way to describe them. The shell is like the shell of a chestnut. To eat them, I take a pocket knife and cut them in two pieces. Then take the tip of the knife blade and flip the nut halves out of the shell halves. One you get the hang of it, you can eat a lot of them fairly fast - a lot faster than shelling hazelnuts. So far I haven't cut off any fingers.....

 

[TreeDaddy]

I love this tree......because I can grow them!!! They produce 2 to 3 years from bare root plantings

My upland soil is sandy and acidic

My summers are hot, dry , and harsh

This tree must be a tough mo fo

bill

 

[Troubles Trees]

I made a mistake by buying Ozark Chinquapin (Castanea ozarkensis) when I first found these mini-chestnuts spoken about on another Habitat Site. I live in NY and although the range is reported to be no further north than Virginia, there are trees reported further north. What I was looking for was Allegheny Chinquapin (Castanea pumila) which is a much more cold tolerant version of the 2, but both grow a single nut per bur and is largely the distinction between Chestnut's and Chinquapin's as I understand it.
Our DEC seedling sale offers Allegheny's about every 3 years but the odd thing is this year they sold "Copper Chinquapin" but the Latin name is still Castanea Pumila so I know they are Allegheny's but it struck me odd that they changed the name. I only mention this because what you are looking for are not always easy to find when looking for these to plant, so search online using the Latin name and you really need to order ahead of the crowds to get them.
By description Ozark's grow in warmer regions and grow more as a tree (and some are absolutely huge) where Allegheny tends to be more shrubby like a Hazelnut form and grow much further north as far as Canada. Our DEC nursery is the Saratoga Tree Nursery and is close to the Canadian border and calls Castanea Pumila a native tree to NY.

I have in my notes on this topic that there is also a Seguin Chinese Chestnut (Caseanea Seguinii) that is a similar, but different as it grows 3 nuts per bur which is more of a Chestnut. Interestingly a quick search of Seguin brought me back here to a discussion in 2016 with Jack :)

Seguins - Dwarf Chinese Chestnuts question - Transfered from QDMA forum

They called me two days ago to see if I wanted my order of henryi and seguins. Hope I get them at this point, we'll see. On a separate note, the henryi trees I planted last fall are leafing out. How did you Henri do the first year? I ordered seed as well, it looks like I am going to keep them in...

habitat-talk.com

 

[PatinPA]

I saw Native Hunter posted about Allegheny Chinkapins in another thread. Can anyone growing them or having them naturally in their area, comment on them here?? I'm not familiar with them, and Native said they're a good food source (I believe him!!). Online info only goes so far ..... hands-on info sheds better light. What kind of soil, light conditions, shade tolerance, growth rate ...... etc. for those familiar.

Thanks.

I planted a bunch from the WV DNR 3 or 4 years ago. Unfortunately they shut down their nursery and stopped selling trees or I would get some more. They had a nice selection. Those of mine that survived are just starting to grow out of the 4 ft tubes. I have yet to see any nuts. They advertised them bearing in 2-3 years. I"m sure that's perfect conditions though. I didn't show them much of any care in their first few years though. Now I baby them a lot more, now that I know better.

 

[Troubles Trees]

I always end up going down a rabbit hole (shocker) lol
My experience with them is that they grow tall and lanky when you use tree tubes so I need to support them for a year after the tube is removed. My early plantings were only 3 years ago (this year will be the 4th) and in year 3 I had 1 with a catkin so they really do start to produce at an early age. My soil sucks so I fertilize with triple 19 in the spring, but they grew surprisingly well the first year without any fertilizer. They aren't an understory tree but some of mine are in 50-60% sunlight areas and they kept up growth with the rest that are planted in full sun.
Hope that helps! :)

 

[Bowsnbucks]

We have some newly cleared areas at camp, so clean slates. When I saw Native Hunter mention them, I figured I'd start a thread to get more info for me and the rest of the crowd. Sounds like Allegheny Chinkapins would make a good addition for greater diversity. We'll have lots of sun in several areas, and we're on a ridge top location - so no soggy spots in the cleared areas. I'll run it by the camp members to see if they'll bite on some A.C.'s.

More info / experience is always welcome. We all learn here.

 

[letemgrow]

There was an Ozark chinquapin that I collected from that had 3 nuts per bur. It’s not common but not unheard of.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Angus 1895]

Got a few from Willis orchard to plany

 

[yoderjac]

A couple years ago, I had more than I could plant in the field, so I planted a few in the yard. They had nuts the first year I planted them from the 3 gal RB2s I know Native Hunter's seem to take more of a tree form, but mine tend to form bushes. Here is a pic. These are looking great!

There are at least a half dozen different trees in this picture. I planted them closet together hoping they would take more tree form reaching to outgrow their neighbors. No luck so far. They are still bushes.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[PatinPA]

I tubed mine when I first planted them. Some seem to be growing tree like and are multiple feet out of the top of the tube and others have multiple branches that still aren't out of the tubes. I want to take the tubes off and cage the ones that are more bush like and see what happens. The tubes seem to be hindering the more bush like plants.

 

[Teeder]

I bought what I thought were dwarf chinkapin from Oikos a few years back. All 3 are in tubes and all 3 look tree-like. Who knows what I actually got.

 

[yoderjac]

I bought what I thought were dwarf chinkapin from Oikos a few years back. All 3 are in tubes and all 3 look tree-like. Who knows what I actually got.

Dwarf Chinquipin Oaks (DCO) are very different but also a great wildlife tree. I grew some from nuts. They are an oak species that produce acorns very early in life. Allegheny Chinquapins and Ozark Chinquapins are both in the chestnut family. Yes, it is confusing.

I guess that is why they came up with scientific names. DCO = Quercus prinoides. AC = Castanea pumila. OC= Castanea ozarkensis.

Your pics don't look like DCOs to me, but I think that is what Okios sells and I'm not great at identifying trees from pics.
Thanks,

Jack

 

[The Fishman]

In my experience and observations, Allegheny chinquapins are more shade tolerant than Chinese chestnuts. While not a true understory tree, I frequently find them in fence lines, forest edges, and in areas with a somewhat open canopy where they get quite a bit of shade. I find them a little harder to grow from seed than Chinese chestnuts in that I have lost a lot of them to damping off where they get a couple of inches tall and then just die. If growing from seed, they can be planted immediately and do not require stratification like a chestnut. Below is a photo from last September of a two-year-old tree started from a seed. Not all of them have done this well. It had plenty of catkins last Saturday so I am hoping for some nuts this fall. The second photo is from a local wildlife refuge where the staff burned the area a couple of years ago. The tree was taller, but was top killed in the fire. The tree is now more of a bush about 10-12' wide and 8' tall. It produced catkins this year for the first time since the burn. Hopefully it will produce nuts this year also. Allegheny chinquapins can catch blight. The tree I usually collect from seems to have caught it and looks dead.

 

[yoderjac]

In my experience and observations, Allegheny chinquapins are more shade tolerant than Chinese chestnuts. While not a true understory tree, I frequently find them in fence lines, forest edges, and in areas with a somewhat open canopy where they get quite a bit of shade. I find them a little harder to grow from seed than Chinese chestnuts in that I have lost a lot of them to damping off where they get a couple of inches tall and then just die. If growing from seed, they can be planted immediately and do not require stratification like a chestnut. Below is a photo from last September of a two-year-old tree started from a seed. Not all of them have done this well. It had plenty of catkins last Saturday so I am hoping for some nuts this fall. The second photo is from a local wildlife refuge where the staff burned the area a couple of years ago. The tree was taller, but was top killed in the fire. The tree is now more of a bush about 10-12' wide and 8' tall. It produced catkins this year for the first time since the burn. Hopefully it will produce nuts this year also. Allegheny chinquapins can catch blight. The tree I usually collect from seems to have caught it and looks dead.
View attachment 43444
View attachment 43445

Great looking tree. I have a few that that that form, but most are bushy. It doesn't seem to matter as they produce just as many nuts. Most of my native trees are growing in the exact places you describe.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[TreeDaddy]

A couple years ago, I had more than I could plant in the field, so I planted a few in the yard. They had nuts the first year I planted them from the 3 gal RB2s I know Native Hunter's seem to take more of a tree form, but mine tend to form bushes. Here is a pic. These are looking great!

There are at least a half dozen different trees in this picture. I planted them closet together hoping they would take more tree form reaching to outgrow their neighbors. No luck so far. They are still bushes.

Thanks,

Jack

From personal experience, I can verify the benefit of transplanting 3 gal RBII vs 1 gal and smaller

A couple years ago, I had more than I could plant in the field, so I planted a few in the yard. They had nuts the first year I planted them from the 3 gal RB2s I know Native Hunter's seem to take more of a tree form, but mine tend to form bushes. Here is a pic. These are looking great!

There are at least a half dozen different trees in this picture. I planted them closet together hoping they would take more tree form reaching to outgrow their neighbors. No luck so far. They are still bushes.

Thanks,

Jack

The 3 gal RBII aspect is worth reemphasis

This size rootmaker at transplantation in the field offers the best chance of success in my hands
Transplanting RM18s is uniformly fatal to baby trees..... 1 gal RBII yields marginal results

if it takes 2 seasons in the backyard to get to 3 gal or larger, its worth it to me

bill