advice for clover/winter rye planting this fall

[EarthySpirit]

I've decided to plant clover and winter rye together late summer this year for my deer/turkey (primary concern is deer) (Central Kentucky), but I wanted advice about the timing and amount. Should I sow them at the same time or different times, and what amounts? I've read a couple of places to do 50lb per acre of WR when planted with clover but wanted some confirmation from some of you. And with that, how much clover per acre with it? I plan to use white clover. Thanks for any help!

As a correlated question, Some recommended a pure stand of WR, with no clover. Thoughts about this too would be greatly appreciated. Thanks so much!

 

[SD51555]

I plant mine 6-10 weeks before first frost. I've got a really short growing season, and usually don't get too concerned on timing, so long as the peak heat of summer has passed, and all the warm season weeds and grasses have come up. Clover and rye are as easy as they come as far as establishment, so long as you do it in the fall. Throw in 5 lbs of chicory per acre with that, and you've got yourself a great plot for next year.

 

[EarthySpirit]

I plant mine 6-10 weeks before first frost. I've got a really short growing season, and usually don't get too concerned on timing, so long as the peak heat of summer has passed, and all the warm season weeds and grasses have come up. Clover and rye are as easy as they come as far as establishment, so long as you do it in the fall. Throw in 5 lbs of chicory per acre with that, and you've got yourself a great plot for next year.

Thank you, part of the reason for rye/clover is to hopefully keep it for a few years. How will Chicory effect that?

 

[Someday isle]

I’m in central Missouri - so similar to your location I’d think. I try and seed Labor Day weekend if there’s rain in the forecast at all. Even in a drought a couple years ago I still had decent Rye in the fall and good clover the next spring. I usually go 50 to 75 pounds of Rye, 50 pounds of oats, 5 pounds of groundhog radish, 10 pounds of medium red Clover or 6 pounds of Ladino White clover depending on which clover I’m using. On my clover trails I use white clover. On my harvest plots I use medium red knowing I’m going to replant again the next fall. All amounts are per acre.

 

[EarthySpirit]

I’m in central Missouri - so similar to your location I’d think. I try and seed Labor Day weekend if there’s rain in the forecast at all. Even in a drought a couple years ago I still had decent Rye in the fall and good clover the next spring. I usually go 50 to 75 pounds of Rye, 50 pounds of oats, 5 pounds of groundhog radish, 10 pounds of medium red Clover or 6 pounds of Ladino White clover depending on which clover I’m using. On my clover trails I use white clover. On my harvest plots I use medium red knowing I’m going to replant again the next fall. All amounts are per acre.

Thank you!

 

[SD51555]

Thank you, part of the reason for rye/clover is to hopefully keep it for a few years. How will Chicory effect that?

It'll help fill the broadleaf niche. Without one, or four, nature will send you some eventually. They just may not be as advantageous or easily controlled.

 

[scott44]

My fall cereal grains go in around Labor Day and the mix I use is

50+ lbs rye
50+ lbs oats
10 lbs red clover
6 lbs ladino clover
-either one or the other or a combination on the clover
5 lbs radishes

 

[Kdog]

Sounds like you are trying to establish a perineal white clover plot. Have you had soil tests done to see if any amendments are needed? We converted 80% of our plots to Durana once we got our ph corrected several years ago. This was in the piedmont region of GA, so our timing is +/- a month later than you. We planted mid October and used the following mix per acre mix in red clay. Think we are on our 4th year now and all we do is keep the grassy weeds down by spraying clethodim on them if needed. We had some broadleaf's get in it last year so we sprayed 24db and lost our chicory.

70# Wrens Abruzzi Rye
10# Durana
6# Medium red
6# Chicory

These pics are from the 1st year.

 

[yoderjac]

I've decided to plant clover and winter rye together late summer this year for my deer/turkey (primary concern is deer) (Central Kentucky), but I wanted advice about the timing and amount. Should I sow them at the same time or different times, and what amounts? I've read a couple of places to do 50lb per acre of WR when planted with clover but wanted some confirmation from some of you. And with that, how much clover per acre with it? I plan to use white clover. Thanks for any help!

As a correlated question, Some recommended a pure stand of WR, with no clover. Thoughts about this too would be greatly appreciated. Thanks so much!

I like WR rates between 80 and 100 lbs/ac and Clover rates around 10 lbs/ac. You want the seed spread evenly. If you can get that mixing them in your broadcast spreader, they can be blroadcast together. If not, make too passes, one for WR and one for clover. I think the best practice for perennial clover is to start with a weed free field and then become weed tolerant. Both of these surface broadcast very well so there is no need for tillage and that is much better for your soil health. Burn down the field with gly or liberty the same day your broadcast your seed. If you have a cultipacker, broadcast and cultipack first, then spray. If not, broadcast, mow, then spray.

For perennial clover, the WR will be the fall attractant and act as a nurse crop for your clover. Don't expect much clover growth in the fall. You may get some if conditions are right, but it just needs to germinate to get a jump on weeds next spring. Perennial clover spends a lot of time and energy putting down a root system so it takes time to establish. The key is management the next spring. No need for herbicides. Each time the WR hits a foot or so in height, mow it back to 6" to 8". If you have good rain in the forecast, you can mow as low as 6", but if not use 8" to be safe. This will allow enough light in to release the clover while still providing protection against weeds. You may need to mow several times the first spring depending on the specific type of clover. Some are slower to establish than others. The WR will die on its own in the summer, but by then the clover should be established. After that, I just mow once a year before the season.

In my area, zone 7a Sept or Oct works well. I usually plant clover in Sept as our archery season starts in early Oct. I wait until after Labor Day and then look for a good rain in the forecast and plant just ahead of that. You will need to adjust planting dates to match your locality.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[chucker66]

You can also just leave the Winter Rye grow and it will keep a lot of weeds out on it's own. I plant mine in the fall in Zone 4 (North) and then roll it it in July or August when it seeds out and plant again. The clover underneath is usually very healthy and this allows me to broadcast some Brassicas into the clover plot. Its a great cycle for me and my plots get better and better every year. I used to plant more Brassicas but now have more clover in the plot and the soil has gotten better each year. I'm very close to not having to use any herbicide or fertilizer, just lime in the spring and fall which is one of my goals. Winter Rye for me is the mainstay of my food plots. It's cheap, readily available, great for the soil, perfect for broadcasting, and the deer like it too.

 

[yoderjac]

You can also just leave the Winter Rye grow and it will keep a lot of weeds out on it's own. I plant mine in the fall in Zone 4 (North) and then roll it it in July or August when it seeds out and plant again. The clover underneath is usually very healthy and this allows me to broadcast some Brassicas into the clover plot. Its a great cycle for me and my plots get better and better every year. I used to plant more Brassicas but now have more clover in the plot and the soil has gotten better each year. I'm very close to not having to use any herbicide or fertilizer, just lime in the spring and fall which is one of my goals. Winter Rye for me is the mainstay of my food plots. It's cheap, readily available, great for the soil, perfect for broadcasting, and the deer like it too.

Yes, this depends on seeding rates. With a heavy seeding rate, mowing is needed to release the perennial clover. With a lighter seeding rate, it make get enough light without mowing. I'm far enough south that heavier seeding rates of WR help with our problematic summer weeds than lighter rates so spring mowing is required. Further north summer weeds may be less of a problem with the shorter growing season.

One more note on seeding rates. Soil types can make a difference in germination rates along with moisture retention. So, all the rates you will hear may work better in some areas than others.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Bassattackr]

Generally speaking for fall cereal grains, most recommend around Sept 1 planting date along I-70 corridor. If you are north or south, adjust by a week sooner / later every 100 miles you are north/south from I-70 respectively.

I'm in central MO so I typically seed around Sept 1.

 

[DiSc0Rd]

We put down 200lb rye last year around Sept and almost none of it came up. Same with our clover. Early this year we went in and put down lime and like magic, the clover and a ton of the rye popped up. I was actually confused as to what was growning at first because I expected weeds not year old rye. So, fixing the soil should be job 1.

 

[4wanderingeyes]

My rye didn’t come up either in 2 of my plots. I am planning on putting lime down too, I just haven’t gotten to it yet.

 

[Bassattackr]

We put down 200lb rye last year around Sept and almost none of it came up. Same with our clover. Early this year we went in and put down lime and like magic, the clover and a ton of the rye popped up. I was actually confused as to what was growning at first because I expected weeds not year old rye. So, fixing the soil should be job 1.

I had a similar experience with my fall plots last year. Keep in mind we had record drought conditions last fall in most areas. At least here in the midwest..

 

[DiSc0Rd]

I had a similar experience with my fall plots last year. Keep in mind we had record drought conditions last fall in most areas. At least here in the midwest..

Right there with you. I think we went 11 weeks without rain here in IL

 

[gjs4]

what kind of pH were you guys dealing with that had struggles growing rye?

 

[bigboreblr]

What are you using to get the foodplot started? Some of us have seed drill and can use 60-80lbs. Some of use have some standing thatch or vegetation that we mow or kill with herbicide. The thatch acts like a protector and seedbed for moisture. Many are puting down 100-150lbs an acre.

ye is great, but the seeds are huge and can be foraged by birds and small game quickly before they get a chance to grow. Thatch hide it, bare dirt you need to stir it in to hide it from the very top.

I use spring harrows with an ATV to break ground on fresh foodplot areas. Otherwise established I throw and mow / roundup. I loosen up the soil, then put the teeth to a light 1 inch stir. Spread the grains and larger seeds and a 1/3 to 1/2 of my clover, then stir it up once. Then, I spread my small seeds. Sometimes I run a tire drag around, sometimes I just roll it in. I have a cultipacker, lawn roller, or for years I'd Air up my ATV tires from 4 up to 8-10 psi and keep driving until it's mostly tire tracks.

Like one or two mentioned, I do more than just the rye. Oats are more prefered than rye. I always put some oats in, so the deer focus on eating than and let the clover do it's thing. It also thickens up the food plot quicker in the fall. Come spring oats are mostly killed and the rye and clover takes up the space.


Clover, I like a mix. Used to like dutch white because it grew so well. But, some folks are noticing they have trouble with the clover shading out other no-till seeds, even rye. So, i am letting it live its life out in my plots without a heavy gly or 2,4D kill. Just not buying seed anymore for my general reseeding needs. Could see myself using it in a new plot area in the future possibly.

Medium red and ladino is what I use mostly. Medium red I consider an annual faster one, perfect for a nursing crop of slower growing ladino. If the plot is new, I use more medium red. Usualy 1 part medium red to 2 parts ladino. Used to be even red, ladino, dutch white. I buy forage feast clover blend wihich has a good bit of medium red and crimson clover in it too.

MY home plot naturally has english plantain in it, and it plays the role chickory does in other folks plots. Gets sweet after a few frosts, then they hammer it.

Plant your plot late summer. IF you planted it a bit on the early side, add some more rye in early september, like 30-40lbs/acre. The deer like the fresh stuff a bit better come hunting season.


In febuary or so, spread maybe 10lbs/acre of your clover the 1st year. Every winter after that if the plot is doing ok, you can go down to 6lbs/acre. Just broadcasting it. No need to roll it in or anything that itme of year.