Acorn direct seeding ?

[Turkey Creek]

Finally beat the damn squirrels to the goods! We have a couple of Burr Oaks on my Mother in Laws place. They seem to be prolific producers and the one is only maybe 6" DBH. Last year the squirrels beat me to them. I want to direct seed some on the new farm. Have read that deer will eat white oak seedlings, do I need to protect any that successfully germinate?

 

[Native Hunter]

It depends on location and food availability. I could get by on my farm with not protecting oaks from browsing but not so with chestnuts and most fruit trees. However, once the oaks get big enough to rub, any out in the open are likely to get hit.

 

[Turkey Creek]

If I get any good growers I will plan on caging them. Might try and start a few in tall tree pots I have from past oak production tries. However, I would think that any that germinate in their permanent growing locations would have an advantage over pot started and then transplanted. Not looking to start a huge number of them, just thinking about a small area with maybe a dozen trees in it.

 

[BuckSutherland]

If I was REALLY gonna try to get some acorns growing on my land I would probably attempt the following....

1. Dig or auger out decent size hole (bigger the better)
2. Fill back with some potting soil/compost/manure/peat moss/miracle grow, whatever, etc.....
3. Soak acorns in water for a few days
4. Lightly push 3 good acorns into a fairly tight cluster in the new soil and give it a shot of water
5. Slip a 5 foot tree pro tube over the cluster of acorns
6. Stake tube down and push into the soil so rodents have some trouble ( I like 3 zip ties to a 6 foot t post)
7. See what pops up and eliminate the losers and maybe transplant tubes that have extra seedlings
8. Weed mat and mulch your successful sites once you have trees growing


The burr oaks on my land in N MN are thriving in 5 foot tubes. These are plugs from Itasca and not acorns. The tube, weed mat and mulch make a nice little greenhouse for my young oaks.

 

[buckdeer1]

I agree with the tubes but I never did the more than one acorn.I always thought if something found them they would eat all there.Because of the drought I don't think I produced a acorn to maturity. I had burs produce faster than sawtooths.Hope you have good luck

 

[Catscratch]

Short answer is yes, you have to protect them. I did an experiment. Planted a row and caged every other one. Caged are 10-12' tall now. Uncaged are 3-5' tall .

 

[Lucky_P]

30 yrs ago, I had a friend who worked at the MO Dept of Conservation nursery. Deer would come in and dig out 1-yr bur oak seedlings in the nursery beds to get at the remaining acorn meats. I've had squirrels do the same with container-grown bur oak seedlings. Gotta protect them!

 

[goatman]

Take the acorn off after a few weeks of germination. Not needed.

 

[Catscratch]

Yep, once the sprout has leafs the energy from the acorn is no longer needed. Just an unnecessary temptation at that point.

 

[bwoods11]

Short answer is yes, you have to protect them. I did an experiment. Planted a row and caged every other one. Caged are 10-12' tall now. Uncaged are 3-5' tall .

About the same in Minnesota. Most oaks are less than that, or dead if I don’t protect them .

 

[yoderjac]

Things really depend on location. We have lots of native volunteer oaks here and deer don't seek them out for browsing. Like any other plant, they may take a bite as they walk by. Here, the big seedling predator is squirrel. They hammered my chestnut seedlings in rootmakers on my deck. I could not direct seed without protecting the nuts at my farm.

At my retirement property, I have several acres of mature oaks and a large open field. Squirrels rarely venture out into the open field. In my back yard at home, I had planted some Allegheny Chinquapins that I did not have time to take to the farm to plant. They are in full sun and loaded with nuts this year. I've generally stopped growing trees and sold all my rootmaker and tree growing supplies. Since ACs produce nuts so early in life, I decided to collect nuts and take them to the retirement property to plant. I just direct seeded them well into that open field with zero protection. It will be interesting to see if they are predated by squirrel or if they germinate and produce seedlings next spring. If I do get seedlings next spring, I may protect them from deer.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[jsasker007]

Things really depend on location. We have lots of native volunteer oaks here and deer don't seek them out for browsing. Like any other plant, they may take a bite as they walk by. Here, the big seedling predator is squirrel. They hammered my chestnut seedlings in rootmakers on my deck. I could not direct seed without protecting the nuts at my farm.

At my retirement property, I have several acres of mature oaks and a large open field. Squirrels rarely venture out into the open field. In my back yard at home, I had planted some Allegheny Chinquapins that I did not have time to take to the farm to plant. They are in full sun and loaded with nuts this year. I've generally stopped growing trees and sold all my rootmaker and tree growing supplies. Since ACs produce nuts so early in life, I decided to collect nuts and take them to the retirement property to plant. I just direct seeded them well into that open field with zero protection. It will be interesting to see if they are predated by squirrel or if they germinate and produce seedlings next spring. If I do get seedlings next spring, I may protect them from deer.

Thanks,

Jack

Jack,
You should try transplanting some small oaks with your excavator. Find some that are coming up and are too close to other oaks and need to be thinned anyway. Find the spot where you want to plant one and take a scoop out with your excavator bucket, then when you dig out a tree you take the same size scoop when you dig it out. Works pretty damn good.

 

[j-bird]

When I direct seed acorns I first plant 3 acorns per location (I will keep the best one after about 2 years of growth). I also put them in a "germination cage". I tend to use hardware cloth and build a small enclosure. Be sure to stake these down as critters will pull the cages to get to the acorns....even once the seedling has germinated. I then simply increase the size of the cage as I see fit to promote protected growth.

I have done this with sawtooth as well as swamp white oaks. I prefer to plant everything in the spring if I can as I feel it prevent the acorns be exposed longer and them either rotting or being eaten before germination.

As they grow I protect them just like I do a fruit tree....with a fine metal fabric to protect from rodents, a weed mat and gravel and a larger wire cage and some T posts and flagging tape.

I have never had much luck with essentially broadcasting acorns and them turning into much that I can tell.

I have some sawtooth I planted a few years ago (I would have to go WAY back on my property thread to see when I actually planted them) that are now 15 to 20 feet tall now.....and I still protect the trunk for fear of rubbing.

 

[Catscratch]

The rubbing and browsing is a real thing on my place. It's kind of like a clover patch without an exclusion cage... without the caged trees I wouldn't really know how much the uncaged trees have been set back. Like J-bird I used to plant sawtooths 2 per hole. Found I have no reason to do it as I just have to go back and cut the competing tree out. Too high of a germination rate.

 

[j-bird]

So I went back and looked....

Sawtooth "catscratch" oaks

April 2017 - acorns in the ground with my "germination cages" of 18".


Same trees last week or so.... cages are 5 feet tall for reference. Best tree is probably near 15' others near or around 10'.


Treating them like fruit trees gives them every advantage.... I have others that I left to their own devices and they certainly show it. Some are only 2 feet tall now....that I didn't baby along. The other thing that I do to help is I like tall narrow cages. I prefer 5 feet tall so the deer can't reach over the top and get to the tree. I like more narrow cages so the lower branches get browsed off as they reach beyond the cage and the tree puts its energy into grow UP and not OUT. I also prune and trim when I can. Even brushy species like the sawtooths. One main leader will again focus growth where you want it. Not all of the trees cooperate....but it certainly helps. NONE of my trees have seen tree tubes and they only additional support I give my trees it to try to ensure they grow straight up. You will find after enough of them, you will find one that wants to grow sideways!

 

[Catscratch]

So I went back and looked....

Sawtooth "catscratch" oaks

April 2017 - acorns in the ground with my "germination cages" of 18".
View attachment 46316

Same trees last week or so.... cages are 5 feet tall for reference. Best tree is probably near 15' others near or around 10'.
View attachment 46317

Treating them like fruit trees gives them every advantage.... I have others that I left to their own devices and they certainly show it. Some are only 2 feet tall now....that I didn't baby along. The other thing that I do to help is I like tall narrow cages. I prefer 5 feet tall so the deer can't reach over the top and get to the tree. I like more narrow cages so the lower branches get browsed off as they reach beyond the cage and the tree puts its energy into grow UP and not OUT. I also prune and trim when I can. Even brushy species like the sawtooths. One main leader will again focus growth where you want it. Not all of the trees cooperate....but it certainly helps. NONE of my trees have seen tree tubes and they only additional support I give my trees it to try to ensure they grow straight up. You will find after enough of them, you will find one that wants to grow sideways!

J-bird, have any of those sawtooths made catkins or acorns yet? None of the one's I've planted at my place have acorns yet but the ones at my dad's produce a ton. His trees are the ones I collect acorns from for many years now.

 

[j-bird]

J-bird, have any of those sawtooths made catkins or acorns yet? None of the one's I've planted at my place have acorns yet but the ones at my dad's produce a ton. His trees are the ones I collect acorns from for many years now.

Not yet....every year...it's like, "maybe this year will be the year".....and it isn't. That is the "trouble" with trees. You really needed to plant them about 10 years ago...or more! I am sure at some point I will see them produce. I'll be a happy puppy when it happens. This was why I also shifted efforts to soft mast and shrubs as they seem to become more useful to the critters while the hard mast trees "grew up".

Rome wasn't built in a day....or even a decade I guess!

 

[ncstewart]

I’ve not read all the post first off. But I have had good luck direct seeding by keeping seed in fridge until spring. Then planting by loosening soil and planting using a 2 liter coke bottle and small rebar stake to protect it. It’s cheap and pretty fast.

I’ve had pretty poor results when I don’t protect the seeds at all.


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[Wind Gypsy]

I seeded a handful with the @OakSeeds method of cutting the top section off a plastic 2 gallon pot (from SWCD spruce tree purchase), twisting it into the dirt a few inches, planting acorn(s) inside, covering with stapled down hardware cloth for protect from squirrels, and then caging the emerging plants to protect from deer. Don’t have results to speak of but it makes sense to me and he does!

 

[yoderjac]

Jack,
You should try transplanting some small oaks with your excavator. Find some that are coming up and are too close to other oaks and need to be thinned anyway. Find the spot where you want to plant one and take a scoop out with your excavator bucket, then when you dig out a tree you take the same size scoop when you dig it out. Works pretty damn good.

I really have no reason to transplant oaks. Our native oaks take 20 years to produce and I'll be gone before then. We have lots of oaks. Most of my tree planting has been to offset mast crop failure years with our native oaks. I understand how guys plant oaks in open country. We have mixed habitat here.