3-Point No-till drill and floating hydraluic top-link - Transferred from QDMA forum

[yoderjac]

BACKGROUND:
As many of you know from other threads, I have a small 4' Kasco No-Till Versadrill. In general, it is the best equipment investment I've made, but unlike the big drills, it does have it's quarks.
Instead of having lots of weight and a limiting wheel for depth like the big drills, seed depth is controlled by shortening or lengthening the top-link to put more or less pressure on the cutting wheels and openers. It also has plenty of room on the frame for adding weight and depending on soil conditions, sometimes that is necessary.
The problem is that if you shorten the top-link enough to get the depth you need, the culitpacker does not have enough pressure to cover the seed well. This spring, I had a buddy follow my planting with an ATV and lawn roller to cover the seed.
Another issue that all 3-point drills have is that the frame is rigid enough that as the tractor goes over uneven ground, the drill can lift or get more pressure.
One the other end of the spectrum, if I add weight to achieve the proper seed depth and I lengthen the top-link so the cultipacker works properly, when I lift the drill with the hitch, the cultipacker hangs so low I can smack it on the ground when making turns on uneven ground.
I'm operating this drill with a Kioti DK45 4x4 tractor with a FEL which has plenty of lift capacity for the drill.
PLAN:
I'm considering adding a hydraulic top-link. My tractor has a detent lever and a single set of hydraulic ports on the rear. I was thinking of adding a simple open/closed solenoid valve with a reservoir or return line.
My thinking is this. I could shorten the link using the detent lever with the valve closed when transporting the drill or making turns. This would eliminate any issue of the cultipacker being too close to the ground and hitting the ground when I turn. Then, when I'm ready to operate the drill, I would drop the hitch and lengthen the top-link using the detent lever until it is resting on the ground. I would then open the solenoid valve. This should equalize the pressure and allow the top-link to float. I would then use weight alone to adjust seed depth based on soil conditions. Since the place on the frame for weight is pretty much in the center front-to back, I would expect the cultipacker to get proper pressure. I would also expect the drill to operate more like a tow-behind drill that conforms more to the ground.
I could just keep using the lawn roller as a follow-up. It takes a lot of time and with my clay soil, I don't like to smooth surface it makes on the field compared to a cuitpacker. I could just buy a 10 foot cultipacker and follow up the plant with that. That would speed up the process compared to my 4' roller and would give me a better surface. However, the cost is probably about the same as the hydraulic top-link. The hydraulic top-link would also be advantageous when using a box blade or rear blade or similar items for road maintenance.
REQUEST:
I'd appreciate any critique of this idea and any advice from folks who have used hydraulic top-links or folks that have more experience with hydraulics in case I misunderstand how it works.
Thanks,
Jack

 

[yoderjac]

Yoder, I think a hydraulic top-link is a great tool. Now no, I don't have one, and have not used one, but I have operated other equipment, and fully realize, the benefit of quick adjustments.
As for the drill in genreal, 3pt no-tills are kinda tricky (as you already know)... especially without having guage wheels, or depth bands for the disc openers.
Ultimately, you don't want to be running your opening coulters deeper than your disc openers, or vice versa.
Best thing I know to do, which is hard to find :p
Would be an elevated level slab, where your tractor can sit level, but then the drill could be hanging off the back of the slab, where you can set the frame of your drill level, at the desired planting depth. Which would be playing with the adjustment between location on your 3 pt control, and your actual top link.
In other words, you would be measuring the distance from the bottom of your coulters to the top of the slab that your tires are sitting on. :D

 

[yoderjac]

I think it should work. I dont have one, but a neighbor does and he loves it for general use. You will not gain more weight for depth, but it will help pick up the packer for turns.
Does the 3pt not pick it up high enough to turn now?

The way it works now is that you use the top-link to change the weight distribution of the unit to change the seed depth. A shorter top-link provides more pressure on the cutting wheels/openers and less on the cultipacker. A longer top-link does the opposite. As far as weight goes, the basic amount comes from the unit itself, but there is a place on the frame where you can add weight. This lets you handle different soil conditions.
The unit is pretty long, so, with a shorter top-link setting, the 3-point picks it up plenty high enough. However, when I lengthen the top-link, the cultipacker rides only a few inches off the ground and bumps on uneven ground as I turn.
My thought was to stop using the top-link length to change the weight distribution for adjusting seed depth. I would simply add/remove the weight as necessary to get seed depth and let the unit float for even weight distribution. Then for transport or to make turns, I'd shorten the hydraulic top-link when I lift the unit.

 

[yoderjac]

Use the link below to check out this product. See if isn't exactly what you are talking about, ready from the store shelf. I have been considering adding one to my tractor for some time now.
http://www.hydraulink.net/
Game On

Thanks, but no, this is not what I'm talking about. This might meet some technical definition of a hydraulic top-link but it has no lift capacity. It does not use your tractor's hydraulics. You have to compress the cylinder by some mechanical means with the valve open. Then after lifting the implement using your 3-point hitch, you can use the weight of the implement to extend the cylinder by opening the valve.
While there may be legitimate uses for this kind of product, I don't think it would help me and it is not the same as a true hydraulic top-link as most folks understand the term. I need lift capacity. With true hydraulic top-link, it is connected your tractor's hydraulic pump. Through valve controls, you can either extend or compress the cylinder. This allows you to change the angle of an implement.
Thanks,
Jack

 

[yoderjac]

Not a bad idea. Most tractors have a stop (some are just a simple wing nut) you can set on how far the lift goes up or down. Not sure if it will have the precision needed though. It would be worth a shot and free.
I like my gauge wheel.:p

It will work great if you get one. I have a hydraulic lift cylinder for a 3-point forklift attachment and it works great.

 

[yoderjac]

Yoder, when you lower your drill into the seedbed (for drilling)...
Do you lower your 3 pt arms all the way down?
or do you utilize a ("stop") for lack of better terms, on your adjustment lever, so as to keep the arms at the exact same height each time?
I would always keep weight on the no-till unit. And use the 3 pt arm adjustment as your device which keeps the coulters at a set depth.
If you just adjust weight to go deeper or shallower, you'll end up (possibly) going deeper in (softer ground)... and shallower on hard ground.
That will always give you inconsistent depth control.

I drop the arms all the way. I've never had the issue of going too deep. My starting point is with the drill sitting level (arms not supporting any weight). I have never had to use the arms to "limit" depth. In fact, the problem is the opposite. By lengthening the top-link, I can put more of the weight distribution on the cultipacker (which I need) and the drill will go less deep.
I could use the arms to limit depth if I ever get to that point. My Virginia clay is pretty consistent. It is either all soft, all like cement, or somewhere in between depending on the time of the year. My soybean plots are all on a pipeline that runs mostly north/south and all the fields get similar sun/rain/wind. Once I get the depth right for one field, it is good for all.
I think I might be more inclined to add a depth wheel to the unit if that becomes an issue. Since most of the weight would be borne by the cutting wheels, openers, and cultipacker, I presume I could just use a couple sections of threaded pipe with wheels on them to limit depth and just screw them up or down to adjust.
Thanks,
Jack

 

[yoderjac]

Man, that's one tight soil!
Sounds like you need about 10 tons of Chicken litter per acre. :D
So how deep are you generally getting? For right now, it sounds like you just need some more weight. You really shouldn't have to gouge those front coulters into the ground. Again, ideally, you keep the platform nearly level.
I was running a Tye Pasture Pleaser (no-till,3 pt) a couple of weeks ago.
When we switched to putting in Millet, I was really having to watch my depth, so that I didn't get too deep. :rolleyes:
This was ground that is at least annually plowed, and was plowed last fall. There had not been much of any moisture, which I'm sure helped keep the ground softer.
Good Luck Jack!

Maybe I'm not explaining things well. The cutting wheels and openers are on a bar (one bar per set. These are hinged in the middle and walk together. So, when I shorten the top-link it increases the weight on both the cutting wheels and openers together. It does not cause the cutting wheels to gouge into the ground but it does take pressure of the cultipacker.
With the Eagle beans I'm at about 1" with no weight added to the drill.

 

[yoderjac]

END OF TRANSFER FROM QDMA FORUM

 

[buckdeer1]

My only issue is covering seed with the cultipacker on back of drill.I can adjust the toplink to get coulters where I want them but seed usually doesn't cover well,thought about dragging cattle panel to cover seed

 

[yoderjac]

My only issue is covering seed with the cultipacker on back of drill.I can adjust the toplink to get coulters where I want them but seed usually doesn't cover well,thought about dragging cattle panel to cover seed

I had a similar problem. If I adjusted the top link so I got the right seed depth, the cultipacker did not cover the seed. If I adjusted the top link so the cultipacker covered the seed, the depth was not enough and the cultipacker was barely lifted of the ground for transport. So, when I made turns on uneven ground, the cultipacker would smack the ground sideways and sometimes the drive chain would even pop off.

I considered a similar solution, but the hydraulic top link and chain combination completely eliminated that problem and as a side benefit, it solved a problem that all 3-pt drills have, empty spots with uneven ground.

For transport, I retract the top link to the shortest position. I have plenty of clearance for transport. When I'm ready to drill, I drop the drill and extend the top link until I have slack in the chain. This causes the drill to sit flat on the ground regardless of the tractor position. The drill "floats" like a tow behind drill. For depth control, I simply add weight to the frame of the drill. I use 5 gal buckets full of dry cement.

Another side benefit is that the hydraulic top link makes hookup of all my implements much faster!

Thanks,

Jack