Trees. My plans and your input wanted

Livesintrees

5 year old buck +
So I plan to add quite a few Norway’s this year. They do well in my area (Northwest NJ). I’m going to scatter them throughout the bedding area that I started last season and will improve as soon as season ends Jan 31st. I also plan to line/circle the perimeter of this area to act as a windbreak/thermal barrier. It should also double as a visual barrier although I place my stands so I can enter and exit without being seen from the bedroom. So for that task I’m leaning towards Norway’s. This year has been very hectic and so I will most likely not get Apples and chestnuts in the ground as I need to prep a spot and clear an area. My property is all hardwoods so any improvements involve a monumental tree removal process and I am prioritizing other projects that have been started first.

With that being said, what other trees or plants/bushes are possible to establish in a hardwoods environment? I was looking into wild grapes, blackberries etc etc. but the possibilities are endless.

I’m open to all suggestions and would like your thoughts on this as collectively the membership has most likely tried just about everything out there. The more foolproof and the faster it grows the better. There is a thriving black bear population here also so that has to be taken into account.

Again I will be looking to finalize a location for some apples (most likely crab varieties and low maintenance for wildlife) as well as chestnuts and who knows what else for the following offseason
 
@Livesintrees - you successfully explained exactly my situation as well. To get evergreens to grow requires making a big hole in the hardwoods just to get enough light to the ground. I'm also open to suggestions from others. For now, here is my tentative plan:

I'm buying plugs (likely from Itasca). The biggest size available in the species I'm interested in. I intend to grow them for a season or two in large rootmaker containers (I've done this in the past with great success).

While the plugs are turning into trees, I intend to create pockets in bedding areas by cutting big "holes" in the hardwoods and wage war on what tries to grow back in those holes. Eventually I would like to have ground cover fabric down to keep competition down for the trees.

It's going to be a several year process, but I believe by growing the trees in more of a nursery setting to give them a head start, I will accomplish my goals much faster than planting them in the wild and crossing my fingers. I've done that in the past. Most of the trees survive, but they take many years to get big enough to make a difference.

As far as species to plant I'm thinking Norway Spruce and Eastern Red Cedar. All I want to get from these trees is visual/thermal cover. Both of these seem to be pretty good at that.

I look forward to other replies.

-John
 
I’ve found the Norway’s will grow sun or no sun. Less sun just takes longer but with more shade comes less chances for them to simply “cook” themselves. I’m not too concerned about the Norway’s success. But moreso what else I can add for diversity. I have plenty of mature trees so ideally lower growing trees that Bush out or canopy out would be excellent to further “thicken” the property. When I do the TSI I arrange the brush piles with tree tops in spaced out clumps to hopefully cut the sight lines down some. Should double as. Way to get native forages to grow into the brush piles. I can say that I have nearly zero “grass” in the woods. But around the house where I took out a huge quantity of trees the increased sunlight has all kinds of native grasses and browse exploding.
 
American plum and elderberrys thrive in full sun but will tolerate partial shade.
Flowering dogwood and red osier dogwood also and there available from the NJ nursery.
 
Some quick reading indicates that the flowering dogwood performs well even in shade. Would the red osier do well in shade as well? I do have a sunny area that is low lying wetland. Stays noustbyearbround even when the sun is blazing. Perhaps using red osier on the perimeter for some increased screening and double as a winter food source. My concern would be how tolerant it is to the deer browsing it
 
Gray dogwood does good in shaded spots, ROD seems to like full sun more. I don’t think deer could browse the ROD hard enough to ever hurt it once established, you could mow it to the ground and it should come back.
 
Gray dogwood does good in shaded spots, ROD seems to like full sun more. I don’t think deer could browse the ROD hard enough to ever hurt it once established, you could mow it to the ground and it should come back.
I take it you have experience with it. This has me more interested if it’s that tolerant to broswing. I have several areas that stay dano year round where runoff collects. One spot is shaded the other gets some pretty heavy sun
 
I take it you have experience with it. This has me more interested if it’s that tolerant to broswing. I have several areas that stay dano year round where runoff collects. One spot is shaded the other gets some pretty heavy sun

I’ve got ROD on two different farms it’s a common shrub here, I planted a bunch of it in my shrub strips on our WRP a couple years ago. Once the roots get going good it’s pretty tough stuff and will crown out great and grow thick, I think browsing makes it grow even better. It can take over an open spot within a few years but is very easy to control with Crossbow or similar if it starts to get out of hand.
 
I don't have the 1st hand experience like H2O, but when I researched for my shrub planting a few years ago, I shied away from the ROD and went heavy on the Grays because I read it would be browsed possibly less, giving it a chance to get started. My notes said I could plant the gray "anywhere"... meaning shade/sun, high/low, and near my walnuts. For some reason they didn't get established well. I'm guessing the reason was the deer. I'll have to sneak around and see if I have any survivors. My wild plums turned out to be rockstars. Also could not get roughleaf or flowering dogwoods established. Could've been me.
 
Some guys kill out stands of junk hardwoods by spreading herbicide pellets in the spring. Then they let the trees stand dead for the summer to dry and then cut them up for firewood in the winter. The next spring, they follow up by planting evergreens. One guy I know used Pronone. Another guy used Velpar. Those were years ago.
 
I did not plant it but I have some red osier dogwood in the understory at the farm that's does well. It's a wet spot so maybe that's helping. Also have an open area where a pond leaks continually and it's almost always wet. That spot is thick with R.O.D.

Had a piece of land in NJ once where native flowering dogwood was thriving in the shade.

I've planted both ROD and Gray in old pastures in MO. Both cuttings and bareroot. There about 6-7 years old and finally reaching over 5 to 6 foot in height. The first few years they were eaten to the ground so I know that once the roots take its hard to kill them.

Planted some elderberry on the edge of the woods in my yard in NJ about 3 years ago. They're surviving but not thriving. Don't know if it's the partial shade or deer. Nearly every bit of new growth gets eaten every year so that's not helping. One of three just started sending up root suckers this year so there is hope...
 
Buttonbush?
 
Don’t plant conifers on the S and E sides if you are trying to improve thermal cover. You want morning sun to get in while blocking wind out of the NW.


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@Livesintrees - you successfully explained exactly my situation as well. To get evergreens to grow requires making a big hole in the hardwoods just to get enough light to the ground. I'm also open to suggestions from others. For now, here is my tentative plan:

I'm buying plugs (likely from Itasca). The biggest size available in the species I'm interested in. I intend to grow them for a season or two in large rootmaker containers (I've done this in the past with great success).

While the plugs are turning into trees, I intend to create pockets in bedding areas by cutting big "holes" in the hardwoods and wage war on what tries to grow back in those holes. Eventually I would like to have ground cover fabric down to keep competition down for the trees.

It's going to be a several year process, but I believe by growing the trees in more of a nursery setting to give them a head start, I will accomplish my goals much faster than planting them in the wild and crossing my fingers. I've done that in the past. Most of the trees survive, but they take many years to get big enough to make a difference.

As far as species to plant I'm thinking Norway Spruce and Eastern Red Cedar. All I want to get from these trees is visual/thermal cover. Both of these seem to be pretty good at that.

I look forward to other replies.

-John

Wow, you just made a lightbulb go off for me! I've been wanting to plant conifers on my place in NC but living 4600 miles away makes it seem like a bad idea. If I'm not out there to cap the central leader I could loose some or all of them.

What about raising them in a nursery setting like you mentioned but in below ground knit pots like those from rootmaker? This would allow them to be watered by mother nature and keep them in good shape for transplanting in a few years, at least potentially. I could fence off an area that's easy to access and grow 100+ pretty easily!

Great thread OP, this gets the gears turning in my feeble brain!

https://rootmaker.com/rootmaker-system
 
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Livesintrees - Great thread idea. I agree with some of the above guys on gray dogwood (shade tolerant), and ROD for wetter areas. The only thing is, you may have to cage them until they can get established & have good root systems. I've read that ROD can be cut back or browsed and - once established - can get even thicker. Gray dogwood puts out lots of berries and then the birds will poop new starts all over for you - free !!

I've planted loads of Norways over the past 25 years. They will grow in shade, but much slower than if they get ample light. The more sun - the better. Less sun - they grow thinner with less branching. You can see through them easily. More spindly. They are reaching for the sky for light and thus less lower branches where we want them. For thermal cover, plant them on the N & W side of openings for wind blocks. Being open to the east and south gets them more sun for thicker growth. For the best bedding cover, I'd plant them about 12 to 15 ft. apart so you have openings between the spruce. Forbs, weeds, grass growing in between them will just make bedding more attractive for the deer. Once the spruce get growing, deer will lay in there like rabbits. We've kicked them out from literally 15 to 25 ft. away in our spruce patches.

Another understory tree/shrub that will thrive in shade is witch hazel. It gets to about 15 ft. tall in our Pa. hardwoods. It grows in dry or wet areas under total oak / maple canopy. Once established, it's seed capsules "explode" and send tiny seeds flying in all directions to start more. Good grouse food. Bucks like to rub witch hazel for some reason. Common trunk dia. is about 1" to 2 1/2", and it's canopy sags a bit the older it gets. It usually doesn't grow straight up, like an oak or maple, but it tends to lean one way or the other. It blooms in October and November with small, yellowish/green "spider-looking" flowers. You may have seen it somewhere in the woods.

We have loads of bear too, so I get that problem. Good luck with your clearing & planting.
 
I wanna thank everyone for the replies. Hoping that the site picks back up full force with what I like to call the “habitat season” fast approaching. I’m sure I will have follow up questions on the actual ins and outs of getting the specific suggestions started. By that I mean tubes and caging etc etc. I’ve been looking into every suggestion made here and well as some that weren’t. It makes me start to think maybe I should get a little bit of everything for maximum diversity and to see what takes off and what doesn’t. So I’m making a list and plan to ask further questions when it comes time to finalize the specifics. I have some sunny hinge cut benches and ridges I’d like to diversify. And I also have some low lying wet spots the deer naturally bed in that I’d like to diversify.

I hope this thread keeps on chugging along and is able to help and provide others with some information and ideas. I feel like while we read a lot about food plots and orhards, adding diversity like this can really take a so/so property and make it phenomenal. Some of the best places I’ve hunted had a little bit of everything with no monoculture. So thanks again and rest assured I’m carefully reading every one of your replies. Merry Christmas!
 
One thing I don't like about Norway's is they run branches right to the ground. We have a stand of probably 15-20 yr old trees, looks like great cover but they don't bed in them. Doing it over I'd plant pines where the lowest branch is 4-5ft off the ground and having some native grasses or goldenrod growing up to the branches.
 
What bout white cedar/arborvitae? Apparently deer love it.
 
WNY8N - post #17 ………… Fire up your chainsaw & take off some lower limbs. That's an option.
 
One thing I don't like about Norway's is they run branches right to the ground. We have a stand of probably 15-20 yr old trees, looks like great cover but they don't bed in them. Doing it over I'd plant pines where the lowest branch is 4-5ft off the ground and having some native grasses or goldenrod growing up to the branches.
Not knowing the area I’d assume that during the nastiest weather they still find their way into the spruce. If you were to thin the stand and promote grasses and shrubs from the seed bank I’d bet you would have a small oasis of deer bedding.
 
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