Tractor Problems

[yoderjac]

I've got a Kioti DK45 with cab and have had lots of issues over the years. Most were loader or AC related. Today I had an odd one. I hopped into the tractor and turned the key. All the normal lights lighted up including the diesel heater. When the heater light went out, I turned the key further to start the engine. It rolled over one time and then all the panel lights went out. I had a trickle charger plugged in during the winter months and the Optima Gel Cell is only a year old. I put the charger on it, just in case, and it came to full charge very quickly. I use a tester to check it and it showed over 40 amp hours. So, even if the battery for some reason didn't have enough cranking amps to start the engine, it should have plenty to light the panel lights. I think I've eliminated the battery as the issue.

I checked the manual and found the tractor has a slow-blow fuse. I pulled it. It looked OK, but I'm not sure you can tell by looking. I use a multimeter to buzz it and it showed full continuity. So that is not it.

Anyone have any ideas of quick things I can check before sending it to the shop. It will be expensive because they will have to come get it since I can't trailer it as-is.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[CoshoctonOH]

I've got a Kioti DK45 with cab and have had lots of issues over the years. Most were loader or AC related. Today I had an odd one. I hopped into the tractor and turned the key. All the normal lights lighted up including the diesel heater. When the heater light went out, I turned the key further to start the engine. It rolled over one time and then all the panel lights went out. I had a trickle charger plugged in during the winter months and the Optima Gel Cell is only a year old. I put the charger on it, just in case, and it came to full charge very quickly. I use a tester to check it and it showed over 40 amp hours. So, even if the battery for some reason didn't have enough cranking amps to start the engine, it should have plenty to light the panel lights. I think I've eliminated the battery as the issue.

I checked the manual and found the tractor has a slow-blow fuse. I pulled it. It looked OK, but I'm not sure you can tell by looking. I use a multimeter to buzz it and it showed full continuity. So that is not it.

Anyone have any ideas of quick things I can check before sending it to the shop. It will be expensive because they will have to come get it since I can't trailer it as-is.

Thanks,

Jack

My tractor does something similar if it develops corrosion on the wires and leads for the battery. An easy fix if that is the case, take off the lead and hit with a wire lug brush. If it is the wires connecting to the leads, take the leads off the wire and wire brush the bare wire and where the leads clamp on the wire. Hope it’s that easy for you

 

[yoderjac]

My tractor does something similar if it develops corrosion on the wires and leads for the battery. An easy fix if that is the case, take off the lead and hit with a wire lug brush. If it is the wires connecting to the leads, take the leads off the wire and wire brush the bare wire and where the leads clamp on the wire. Hope it’s that easy for you

Thanks, mine look pretty clean but I'll give it a closer look tomorrow.

 

[ruskbucks]

I had this same issue with our golf cart. It did end up being a fuse. I checked the one by the battery and it was fine. It ended up being another fuse that I missed.

 

[yoderjac]

I had this same issue with our golf cart. It did end up being a fuse. I checked the one by the battery and it was fine. It ended up being another fuse that I missed.

When I checked the manual, none of the fuses listed the display or anything like it. I did check the highest amperage fuse in the box which was for the turn signal timer. I can't think of what fuse might be related. However, it is easy enough to pull fuses and check them. I think I'll pull them one by one from the box and check them in the morning. I don't think this is a high probability solution, but it is easy enough to verify.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[ACCMan]

Check for 12 volts coming into the fuse box first, as it sounds like you lost voltage coming to the fuse box since even the indicator lights will not illuminate. There is usually two wires on positive post of battery, #4awg, and #12 or 10awg. The small wire should be feeding 12 volts to the fusebox. Check all connectors by unplugging and plugging back together to wipe the contacts. I hope you dont have a mouse nest under the hood or dash.

 

[yoderjac]

Check for 12 volts coming into the fuse box first, as it sounds like you lost voltage coming to the fuse box since even the indicator lights will not illuminate. There is usually two wires on positive post of battery, #4awg, and #12 or 10awg. The small wire should be feeding 12 volts to the fusebox. Check all connectors by unplugging and plugging back together to wipe the contacts. I hope you dont have a mouse nest under the hood or dash.

Outstanding suggestion! As I'm lying here in bed, thinking about the problem, I recall that the radio has power when the key is turned off. Tomorrow, I'll try the radio. If it comes on, I'm guessing the fuse box has power. If not, I'll start at the fuse box and work back to the battery. If that is the problem, it should be easy enough to replace the wire.

I'm wondering what could have caused this. I doubt it is a mouse. I had a seal leak and I just got the battery back from the shop a couple weeks ago. They had the whole thing torn apart. It was sitting still in the barn when the failure occurred. If this is the problem, I guess it makes sense that it won't turn over. There is probably some safety thing like the PTO engagement that is electrical and fed from the fuse box that keeps the engine from starting.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[yoderjac]

This forum is great! The advice put me on the right track. Here is how things went this morning. I first looked for a smaller gauge wire connected to the hot side of the battery but there was none. Must be the particular design of my tractor. I checked for power at the fuse box and found 12 volts. Next I started removing all the fuses 1 by one, checking them, and re-inserting them. When I re-inserted the fuse for the radio, it lit up. I figured if the radio has power, maybe something I bumped fixed things. I turned the key and the panel lights came on. I then tried to start the tractor. I short groan and everything went black again. I tested the fuse box again and had no voltage. It was almost like a circuit breaker reset over night and I popped it again when I tried to start the tractor. Hummm.....

I decided to start at the battery and work from that direction. I did notice the positive connection was a bit loose, so I removed both connections, cleaned the terminals and connectors and tightened everything up. Still nothing at the fuse box. I got 12-volts between the battery terminals but when I went from the hot terminal to the frame, I got low voltage. It varied between 3 and 8 volts. I think that vindicated the hot side.

Next, I remove the ground wire connection to the frame and cleaned and sanded everything to make sure i had a good connection. Same results. I then checked the voltage between the hot terminal and the bolt where the ground is connected to the frame. Low voltage. That told me the failure had to be in the ground wire cable itself between the battery and frame. I pulled it, took it to NAPA and got another. Hooked it up and the tractor started right up!

So, here is my explanation of what I think was happening. When I would turn on the key, the low power draw for the panel lights was not causing a problem and the lights were working. As soon as I engaged the starter, the large power draw cause the fault in the ground wire to heat up and fail. Over time as it cooled, enough connection was restored to provide power to the panel lights again. That is why they worked again at first this morning. But as soon as I tried to start it, the failure recurred. That is the best I can do to explain the symptoms.

It took me most of the morning to resolve the issue but the good news is that the cost was only $13 for the cable rather than paying for a tractor pickup and a mechanic to diagnose and fix the same thing. That would have taken a week at least to get the tractor back. I ran it for the rest of the day planting trees, starting it, and turning it off. I've had no more issues, so I think it is fixed.

Thanks again to all who provided advice!

Jack

 

[ACCMan]

It sounds like you had a high resistance connection, either loose connection, or one with internal corrosion. That limited the current needed to operate the starter but would allow the indicating lights to operate intermittently as they require very little current. I used to see this alot when working on boats that operated in salt water. Corrosion would start on and inside a copper cable and the cable would go from soft and pliable to hard as rebar, and transform itself from a conductor to a resistor and restrict current flow to the point of the boat not being able to start. Glad you were able to fix it, and it would be a great time to search the net for a wiring diagram for your tractor, because you know....one day in the future you're gonna need it....again.

Another little trick to use is make up a couple of jumper wires out of flexible #12 wire with alligator clips on both ends. When you have something inop you can use the jumper in parallel with a wire that you suspect to be a problem. This is only temporary, to prove a problem, then remove the jumper and fix your problem. I have found diodes in series in conductors that open circuit and it acts like a broken wire. Most of the times the diodes are hidden from view and you are not even aware of them until removing what I thought was a broken wire. I have seen wiring diagrams that don't show the diodes so you just can't assume anything, even on unmodified manufacturers wiring.

 

[cspot]

This forum is great! The advice put me on the right track. Here is how things went this morning. I first looked for a smaller gauge wire connected to the hot side of the battery but there was none. Must be the particular design of my tractor. I checked for power at the fuse box and found 12 volts. Next I started removing all the fuses 1 by one, checking them, and re-inserting them. When I re-inserted the fuse for the radio, it lit up. I figured if the radio has power, maybe something I bumped fixed things. I turned the key and the panel lights came on. I then tried to start the tractor. I short groan and everything went black again. I tested the fuse box again and had no voltage. It was almost like a circuit breaker reset over night and I popped it again when I tried to start the tractor. Hummm.....

I decided to start at the battery and work from that direction. I did notice the positive connection was a bit loose, so I removed both connections, cleaned the terminals and connectors and tightened everything up. Still nothing at the fuse box. I got 12-volts between the battery terminals but when I went from the hot terminal to the frame, I got low voltage. It varied between 3 and 8 volts. I think that vindicated the hot side.

Next, I remove the ground wire connection to the frame and cleaned and sanded everything to make sure i had a good connection. Same results. I then checked the voltage between the hot terminal and the bolt where the ground is connected to the frame. Low voltage. That told me the failure had to be in the ground wire cable itself between the battery and frame. I pulled it, took it to NAPA and got another. Hooked it up and the tractor started right up!

So, here is my explanation of what I think was happening. When I would turn on the key, the low power draw for the panel lights was not causing a problem and the lights were working. As soon as I engaged the starter, the large power draw cause the fault in the ground wire to heat up and fail. Over time as it cooled, enough connection was restored to provide power to the panel lights again. That is why they worked again at first this morning. But as soon as I tried to start it, the failure recurred. That is the best I can do to explain the symptoms.

It took me most of the morning to resolve the issue but the good news is that the cost was only $13 for the cable rather than paying for a tractor pickup and a mechanic to diagnose and fix the same thing. That would have taken a week at least to get the tractor back. I ran it for the rest of the day planting trees, starting it, and turning it off. I've had no more issues, so I think it is fixed.

Thanks again to all who provided advice!

Jack

Glad you found the problem. I hate electrical problems as they can be so hard to find. At least it was a cheap fix once you found it.

 

[yoderjac]

Thanks again for the tips. Your description makes perfect sense. The interesting thing was that once I tried starting the tractor and all the lights went out, they would stay out. However, if let the tractor sit for a long period, overnight in this case, they would work. I'm guessing the high resistance in the corroded cable heated it enough to prevent current flow, but the cooling cycle over night was enough to restore some sufficient current conduction for the lights.

Good point on jumpers, but as you say, you need the wiring diagram to work your way through it.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[yoderjac]

Glad you found the problem. I hate electrical problems as they can be so hard to find. At least it was a cheap fix once you found it.

Yes, substantially less expensive than the alternative. I was very happy with the outcome

 

[MRBB]

if you didn;t I highly suggest adding some dielectric grease to all your connections you can find, to help prevent things from corroding in the future,
as it seems things that sit long and often between use like tractors or HD equipment,
I find have more corrosion issues than things used often, from fuses to batterty connections to??
it never hurts to clean can coat these connections with a little IMO

 

[yoderjac]

Good idea. There was some corrosion on the connections but not a lot. The cable was evidently corroded internally. But you're right. A little prevention is always useful.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[ACCMan]

All it takes is a little fertilizer dust and dew and you have corrosion before you know it.