The Woods ... mistakes I'v made


Good observation; first, if you don't believe you can service the tree via use of a water pipe ... especially during periods of hot, dry weather, you probably shouldn't use one.
Second, there are things you could do to mitigate the effects of warm air. Easy answer is to put a cap on the pipe to restrict air flow (you could even insulate the above ground portion of the pipe if you were in TX where the summer is very hot. If you believe you will not be able to water very often during hot weather, you probably should locate the water pipe 18" or more away from the trunk of the tree. If you plant the pipe 8" into the ground, you could pour in 8-10" of sand to serve as a water-penetrating-blocking-insulator. You could fold fiberglass attic insulation and stuff it 6" into the pipe to restrict airflow (water would still go through even though at a slower rate). I use a lot of "straw-bricks" on top of rock-covered landscape fabric on newly planted trees (especially fruit trees) to help retain moisture. Experiment ... try one like Bill is doing and see if it will work for you. I assure you it will accelerate tree growth. The Kindred Spirit tree featured in the water-pipe experiment photo above was planted in 2017 as a 22 mo old tree (used a black plastic landscape pot to concentrate water over root zone); here is a photo of that tree at planting and a photo of the tree in the fall of 2018. Photo in water pipe experiment above is 2019. Note: in the 2018 photo -taken in mid-fall/Oct. - see ash trees leaves used as mulch ... the tree is still spitting out new growth!
2017 col KS 3.jpg





col WO 2018 Oct.jpg
 
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Attached is a photo showing my three favorite plant foods for oaks and chestnut trees; all are appropriate for acid loving plants. While most who visit HT probably prefer a miracle grow product, I prefer Ultra Green for 2 reasons. First, it has the same composition as MG products, BUT at a much lower price (unless you catch MG on sale like some of these) ..... so it is much cheaper to feed lots of trees. Second, and more important to me, the one big cdifference is UG has a much greater portion of iron than MG .... iron is essential to acid loving plants to prevent chlorosis (yellowing of the leaves - notice how green the leaves are on the Kindred Spirit photos above). I start feeding young trees as soon as the frost is out of the ground (always by mid-March); I put 2 tbls of UG in a cat litter container (around 3 gal of H2O) and pour about 6 oz of the diluted fertilizer down the water pipe (i NOW, THE MOST IMPORTANT PART .... pour 2+ cat-litter-jugs of just H2O down the pipe to further dilute the solution and disperse it widely throughout the root zone (increase the amount of water if ground is dry because of low rainfall). A second feeding during the last week in May includes a 3 tbls concentration of UG/H2O in a cat litter jug. Again, 6 oz in each pipe and 3-4 gal of water (down the pipe) to follow. You feed like this, eliminate competition, and provide protection for young trees, and you'll enjoy some great results. As a side note, at the cend of summer, I bought 10 lb bags of UG on sale at Lowes for $1 @. Finally, if you have soil with good drainage, it's almost impossible to over-water a tree during the hottest part of summer; consequently, when I have time I try to pour at least one cat-litter jug (my substitute for the old Army jerry (sp?) can) into the water pipe every 7-10 days during July-September. I believe adequate moisture is critical for trees for the first 2-3 years after planting. Obviously, I spend a lot of time in the woods; however, I have help on some properties.View attachment 27665at results.
Thanks, this thread has some great info. I have been unable to find the fertilizer on the left. I have found a Lilly Miller 10-5-4 but it does not say ultragreen on the bag. Did they change the label or something? There is a Pennington Ultragreen 10-8-6 Azalea Camellia Rhododendron food but it is unavailable everywhere I tried to order. Lowes website shows both Pennington and Lilly Miller unavailable. Does anyone now where to find this stuff? Thanks
 
SP ... I did a search; however, to no avail. Your question, and my ensuing search, answered a question for me. I bought 10, 10-pound bags of the Ultra-Green displayed in an earlier post for a $1.00 @ as closeout items at Lowes. Apparently, it was a discontinued item; I just got lucky. I believe they currently sell a similar Lilly Miller product (it appears to be somewhat expensive) but I was unable to find a listing of ingredients to see if it contains iron (and in what quantity). Best bet would be to contact the firm and ask for ingredients and list of vendors where product is available. Sorry I couldn't be of more assistance. Good luck!
 
A number of folks on HT enjoy planting MG for screens. If you want to add a little variety to your miscanthus plantings, the attached list identifies several varieties of miscanteus - besides MG - that are available and produce screen-level heights. I like to incorporate a few - often on row-ends or corners to give my plantings a little different look. Over time, by sub-dividing the original clump, you can spot-plant these into unique and attractive patterns. Even though the deer could care less, I enjoy the aesthetics of my work. :emoji_relaxed:
MISCANTHUS Varieties
Miscanthus Floridus (Gigantus) 6-10’ Tall
Miscanthus Silberfeder 6-8’ Tall
Miscanthus Huron 6’ Tall Miscanthus Cabaret 7’ Tall / Miscanthus Cosmopolitian 6-8’Tall / 3-4 W Miscanthus Zebrinus (Zebra) 5-7’ Tall
Miscanthus Gracillimus (Maiden grass) 5-7’ Tall one of the oldest/most popular
Miscanthus Strictus (Porcupine) 5-7’ Tall
Miscanthus Silbertrum “silver tower” – best of the tall Miscanthus plants Miscanthus Morning Light 5-8’ Tall (variegated)
Miscanthus Bronceturm Miscanthus Graziella 5-6’ Tall









 
Just a friendly reminder, fellow chestnut tree aficionados ... it is rapidly approaching the time when Japanese beetles make their early June appearance in the midwest. In my area, early leaf-out chestnut trees got zapped by a freeze; consequently, many lost their early leaves and are now just starting to get a decent flush of second growth. Unfortunately, most of these trees/leaves are - and will remain - not very full (young and tender) just the way beetles prefer them. Probably best to monitor your trees fairly closely over the next 3-4 weeks in order to spray if necessary. Sevin seems to handle them pretty well although I have heard of other chemicals that seem to work very well. Good luck.
 
I just posted this on the thread fertilizing trees in response to a request for info from an earlier post. I,m placing it here so I know where to find it in a hurry if other requests are forthcoming.

You can buy plant mini-watering stakes for household plants or long/skinny watering stakes for trees; this info is from a web site offering one of the most popular. I included it to illustrate the superiority of using a plain ol 36-40" piece of 4" pvc pipe. Please read the underlined material in the quote about skinny water stakes; it explains why these probably wouldn't work well in the woods! You would be there for a while to get 2 gal. of water to the tree.

From the net ..... "Efficient and easy to use, these watering stakes promote strong root development by delivering water and fertilizer directly to tree roots. Water flows freely through the holes of the underground stake. Water isn’t lost to evaporation or run-off, and the deep saturation allows you to water for shorter periods. When tree fertilizer is placed in the shaft of the stake, water passes through the granules and carries nutrients directly to the tree roots. In addition, the stakes also aerate the surrounding soil with oxygen. Designed for use with a garden hose, flood irrigation, or in conjunction with your automatic landscape drip system, the durable stakes can be placed directly in the hole during planting or driven into the ground around an existing tree." Emphasis added

I use 3" and/or 4" std PVC and plant it 30-40 inches deep. As J-Bird so aptly pointed out, a 3' / 4"-dia pipe will handle a couple of gallons of H2o in a hurry. I frequently run 2 cat-litter jugs of water down a pipe .... well over 4 gallons in less than 100 seconds! Don't take my word for it; plant 2 trees (same species) 20' apart in similar/identical soil location and pipe one of them. I'v used pipes on oaks, chestnuts, and fruit trees; they all respond positively to adequate water and nutrients that hit the root zone in a flash. Report your results to us over the next couple of years. If you want healthy and fast tree growth, plant a pipe!

Find out who are the plumbers who service new construction (residential or commercial) in your town/area. I guarantee you they will have scraps and be more than willing to leave them by an unfinished driveway or next to a dumpster for you to gather. Don't forget to share a roll of deer sausage with them; pretty soon they will be calling you. I have a crew that takes 36+ inch scraps back to the shop where I collect it monthly.

Contact me or post up any questions you have and I'll try to be helpful. Good luck.
 
One additional observation about water pipes concerns competition. Even though I use landscape fabric , pea gravel and mulch on most of my tree plantings - even with a pipe - I suspect it would not be necessary with respect to competition. Since grass, and most weeds have root structures much higher in the soil column than oaks or chestnuts, they grab water and nutrients before they drain down to the bulk of oak tree roots. Again, with the water pipe, you inject water and food directly into the root zone; bypassding the roots of competitive plants. Just a thought. :emoji_relaxed:
 
Just finished putting metal roof on a low slope shooter house. In order to avoid leaks, Hydra Shell Supreme SA from Marco Industries was applied over "green board" (Zip Systerm wall and roof sheathing) as a synthetic underlayment to seal out moisture and potential leaks. Hydra Shell is a great product with a 30-yr warranty that is sold (our purchase) as a 67' roll for around $100. I believe we will have part of a box (about 33') left after patching a couple of spots on other roofs. If there is any interest, I'd be willing to sell the 33-feet for $35 and shipping. Visit Marcvo Industries to read about Hydra-shell and Pm me if interested.
 
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Sharing information .... some folks believe acorns with holes in the shell - made by the larvae of acorn weevils - are not viable for producing trees and, consequently, discard them. If you have a more than adequate supply of a particular variety of acorn, throwing away any with weevil holes is probably not a big deal. However, if your sup;ply of a particular variety of acorn is rather limited - perhaps not as many as you might like - than keep them all (including those with weevil holes) because some of the damaged acorns will probably germinate. The attached photo shows an English Oak acorn with 3 weevil holes (and a fourth on the opposite side) that has shot a radical.
 

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Folks frequently wonder if a particular oak species would be appropriate for the "growing" zone where they might want to plant it. While researching something else I had burried in a folder on my computer, I recently located the attached list of oaks and viability for different zones. Perhaps it might be useful for someone.

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Folks frequently wonder if a particular oak species would be appropriate for the "growing" zone where they might want to plant it. While researching something else I had burried in a folder on my computer, I recently located the attached list of oaks and viability for different zones. Perhaps it might be useful for someone.

View attachment 32914

^Awesome stuff.
Any chance u or anyone else would have any info on how much water tolerance pin oaks have?

Have a spot I'm replacing some green ash, it experiences seasonal flooding with standing water for up to 3 weeks before the frost completely comes out of the ground. Then some occasional ponding during extremely wet periods. Most times being high and dry post spring runoff.

Wondering if it could be a fit. Cause my options are limited.

Thz
 
^Awesome stuff.
Any chance u or anyone else would have any info on how much water tolerance pin oaks have?

Have a spot I'm replacing some green ash, it experiences seasonal flooding with standing water for up to 3 weeks before the frost completely comes out of the ground. Then some occasional ponding during extremely wet periods. Most times being high and dry post spring runoff.

Wondering if it could be a fit. Cause my options are limited.

Thz
TBT
I don't believe 3-4 weeks or occasional ponds would represent much of a problem since Illinois - for example - flooded "green tree" areas (those with lots of pin oaks in areas in deep southern Illinois) for a month or more for duck hunting. Pin oak trees will not tolerate inundation of the roots for long periods of time (e.g. several months like 6-7) without serious damage or death. Contact the waterfowl biologist in your state; s/he might be able to give you more complete info. Since pin oak acorns are readily available in many areas, I'd give it a shot if I were you. For what it's worth, given the time frame you indicated, I'd try some swamp white oaks. I have an area holding water early in the spring (post 141 above) where a columnar white oak hybrid with SWO parentage handles the extremely wet area well.
Ifyou can't find pin oak acorns next fall, give me a shout ... there are quite a few in my area. I don't fool with them because of the iron chlorosis issue. Good luck my friend.

This might be helpful ....


























 
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^Awesome stuff.
Any chance u or anyone else would have any info on how much water tolerance pin oaks have?

Have a spot I'm replacing some green ash, it experiences seasonal flooding with standing water for up to 3 weeks before the frost completely comes out of the ground. Then some occasional ponding during extremely wet periods. Most times being high and dry post spring runoff.

Wondering if it could be a fit. Cause my options are limited.

Thz
Pin Oaks are 7th up from the bottom and listed as "tolerant" on Oakseeds chart bud.

I do agree with Oakseeds that SWO would be a solid option for your situation though.
 
Thz for the info, should of been more clear. Seen they were tolerant, but was curious of real world data. Cause I've bought trees labeled one way. That didn't stack up to the test.

If IDC is an issue for the species, then that trumps all. Wouldn't stand a chance on my soils.

Thz again.
 
A word of caution .... and why ERC (other conifers) and plums may be a better long-run option for a road-screen. Lots of excitement over the past couple of years about MG as a screen material. I planted MG and other miscan thus cultivars ... all thought to be sterile. Surprise, surprise, I have offspring popping up 4-10 feet from mother plants. The attached site provides some caution about its use.
https://homeguides.sfgate.com/giant-miscanthus-74644.html
At this site, they say .... Precautions

"It is important to contain and plant miscanthus grasses with care in due to their aggressive and accelerated growth rate. Like bamboo, miscanthus grass reproduces rapidly through an underground rhizome or wind-spread seeds. If not controlled, miscanthus grass, especially wild miscanthus, easily becomes weedy and invasive, popping up in unintended places and displacing other plants. Various cultivars of miscanthus are sterile, and unable to self-seed; therefore there is less of a concern for the plant becoming invasive. Such cultivars include miscanthus “cabaret”, “central park” and “cosmopolitan.” As a perennial it is not essential to replant miscanthus grass each season. Once this plant is established, miscanthus grass continues to vigorously produce for 15 to 20 years. Aggressive pruning each year is necessary to control the size of this plant."

After 5-6 years, any plums you plant will achieve a height sufficient for a good screen and sufficient width to eliminate anyone shooting through it or viewing very much at all. While plums will drop their leaves, they are bushy enough to be very dense and require little or no maintenance after planting. MG, on the other hand loses most of its leaves by February (earlier if lots of snow/wind) and requires substantial maintenance. on an annual basis and every 4-5 years for replanting. MG grows outward in concentric rings (over time the center of the plant dies out) and should be cut off or burned in early spring every spring for best growth. Ideally, MG thrives best if older (10+ yr dead-center plants) are dug up and small sections (1/3 of original plant) are replanted to begin the cycle all over again. Not saying you shouldn't plant MG; just be aware, like many things, it ain't a one and doner!

Here's what the USDA says ....

"Prevent Unintentional Spread
Limited information exists on the invasive potential of giant miscanthus in the United States, for this reason best management practices (BMP) should be used. Establish and maintain a minimum 25-foot border around a giant miscanthus stand to monitor and manage any spread. Cover or otherwise contain vegetative planting material (rhizomes) during transportation, planting, and harvest operations when outside the boundary of the production field. When planting or harvesting operations are complete, inspect and remove all residual vegetative material from equipment. Any excess live planting material or material that has the potential to produce a plant should not be disposed of at field edges, field borders, in farm “trash” piles, or in landfills. This material should be hand planted or disposed of in a manner that follows the guidelines in Planting and Managing Giant Miscanthus as a Biomass Energy Crop, Technical Note No. 4 – July 2011."
 
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I’ve never seen it pop up anywhere. I’ve also stratified and rag tested seeds. None germinated.
 
During the first 3/4 of the waterfowl season, we shoot pretty much only Canada maxima subspecies (aka giants). Today, my 3-bird limit consisted of 1 giant and 2 interior (probably MVP Canada geese from the St James Bay area) that had migrated into the area because of heavy weather north of us. Both of the smaller interior geese had something unusual about each. One carried a band that appeared to constrict its foot so badly that it became deformed and the secvond had a snail shell impaled on the bottom portion of its bill. Very unusual to be killed on the same day.
 

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One big mistake that's become apparent to me this winter is that I should have cut down the dying ash trees near my trails before they became infested with poison ivy.

As it turns out, when the ash canopy starts thinning from the borer, poison ivy makes an appearance in force. I've never seen vines grow so fast in my life. My only option now is to use my hinger to push all of the trees away from the trail, because there's no way I'm chopping them up. If I see poison ivy, I break out, and I already deal with it several times a year despite Technu scrubs with a washcloth to provide abrasion. I should have moved sooner.
 
Knehrke .... sorry to hear of your misfortune. Some time ago, I read somewhere that the time between exposure/contact with the plants urushiol (oil causing skin reaction) and washing with strong soap/chemicals and abrasive cloth/sponge should be 3 hours or less. Some say 15 minutes is too long. The longer the oil is in contact with skin, the greater the probability of a reaction. It sounds like you have woody vines with substantial trunks growing up your dead ash trees; if so, can you get a friend to assist you by making a clean diagonal cut through the trunk with a machete ... then squirt the cut area with a herbicide appropriate for woody plants (e.g., Crossbow). Pushing the dead trees away from the trail is probably a good idea; however, the ivy will continue to spread by seeds and/or rhizomes ... likely back into your trail area.
Whenever I work in an area where poison ivy exists, I wear a long sleeve shirt (removed and placed into a plastic sack when finished) and a pair of soft leather gloves with 2 pairs of latex/rubber gloves over the leather to avoid contaminating my leather gloves. A little awkward at first, but you get used to it quickly.

The site below is a good source of information on all things poison ivy, oak ,etc. Good luck my friend; I understand your discomfort.
https://www.aad.org/public/everyday-care/itchy-skin/poison-ivy/who-gets-contagious
https://www.aad.org/public/everyday-care/itchy-skin/poison-ivy/touch-plant
 
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I envy folks who can place a little wire and a single post to deter deer browse/rubbing. It sure don't work that way for me, regardless of how big the tree gets. With the past 2 weeks with substantial snow, they really munched them. They eat them right cdown to the concrete reinforcing wire cage!
 

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