Raptor vs Imox update and questions for experts

WTNUT

5 year old buck +
I am a big fan of Raptor, always worked extremely well and have used for at least 14 years. 5-7 oz per acre was always the ticket. I never had an unsatisfactory result with any field. This year I was out and decided to give Imox Imazmox a try. I read all the posts on here, and checked out the labels. I thought in theory it should be the same for a lot of reason I will not list because others have noted on here before.

I sprayed at 7-8oz per acre and I was really disappointed. I sprayed all of the clover plots the first time and the results were not good at all. After I had waited long enough to be sure the undesirables were not going to die down any better, I sprayed again which in 14 years I had never had to do with Raptor. It did improve the kill, but wow it still was not as good as a single application of Raptor at 7 oz per acre and I was looking at 14-16 oz of IMOX in a month.

I know IMOX says to use at much higher concentrations. I read the posts on here as to why that was, and I don’t know what the answer is. However, there is something significantly different between the Raptor and IMOX. If anyone is using the two with the same results I am all ears.

I know the conditions were appropriate to apply. The method of application was the same. I have not idea other than to say there must be some truth to the label that suggests concentrations needed are far greater than that of Raptor which if true means it is not less expensive to use.


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Both labels say 12.1% ammonium salt of imazamox though the raptor label does break that down further.
I haven’t used raptor so I can’t compare. I have started to increase the dose though because in my case the effects were short lived. Good control until mid to late summer. Increased dose is like 14oz/acre. I’m kind of afraid to do the scorched earth that they recommend on the imox label.

Did you use any surfactant? I use dish detergent and sometimes blame that. But crop oil seems to cook my clover.
 
Bill,

I tried surfactant as they recommended and I also tried some with peanut oil.
I did not notice a difference. I am going to look at Octivio. My guess is it is the same as IMOX, but it is what Keystone is recommending as a Raptor alternative. I am going to call Keystone and see what they say. If I have to use 14-16oz and still don’t kill what I am trying to kill, I will just bite the bullet and stick with Raptor.


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Post back what keystone has to say. I’m curious
 
Not sure what you are trying to get rid of, but I have always used cleth for grasses and 24db for broadleaf weeds in my clover with excellent results. Just use a non ionic surfactant with it.
 
Not sure what you are trying to get rid of, but I have always used cleth for grasses and 24db for broadleaf weeds in my clover with excellent results. Just use a non ionic surfactant with it.

Smartweed is just one of the targets. I have used Cleth and 24Db as well, BUT the 24DB is very expensive per acre when you are spraying at least 40 acres of clover plots and add Cleth to that for the grasses it is far more expensive than regular Raptor.


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Years ago, I bought some that was intended for pond use at half the cost rather than Raptor which is for crop use. They had the exact same active ingredients as Bill notes. As I recall, there was something that Raptor had in it, not listed as an active ingredient that made it work. I can't recall what it was. It may have been a surfactant, I'm not sure. It seemed quite specialized and was not inexpensive. I can't remember where I read about it.

I never did get around to using it. I don't have a smartweed issue and I've become much more weed tolerant in my perennial clover. I don't spray it any more, just mow before the season. I find my fields are as or more effective. I find it more efficient to rotate earlier if needed and then replant in clover when weeds dominate the field even after fall mowing. I've been getting 7 to 10 years out of Durana with this approach before rotation is needed.

If you figure out what is going on with the imox, please let us know.

Thanks,

Jack
 
Sometimes I think we are lucky any particular herbicide works at all. There are so many variables affecting the outcome. I'm just saying this as something to consider.
To get a true evaluation of the two Raptor would need to be applied on one part of a field and Imox on another part at the same time. I read both labels, and I've read a lot of labels in my career. I see no difference in active ingredient in either although one has the phrasing a little different. What we don't know is the chemistry of the carrier - the inactive ingredients - in either. Both require the use of crop oil first or, second, a surfactant. The Raptor label strongly hints the addition of liquid N improves outcome. And, the RAPTOR label I looked at specifies methylated seed oil under certain conditions. This should be a hint about when it works and when it doesn't.

So, at the same rate and other necessary considerations, both should provide the same result - in theory. IMOX label rates are different only because (as I see it) it's registered for non-ag use. It's purely done to get around patent and EPA registration issues.

That's what the labels say. I once ordered bacon and eggs but got a hash brown and sausage. I'm trying to get to the idea of quality control in manufacturing. I have no reason to doubt the process for either company. One is BASF and the other ALLIGARE. I'll just leave that one there.

I've used IMOX but not RAPTOR. Both are contact herbicides and both have some soil residual. I suspect the soil residual, while promoted as an advantage, is just an unfortunate unintended consequence of the formulation. So, again in my view, the expectation of season-long control is elusive.

It's nearly Halloween. Trick? Or, treat?
 
I am also a big Raptor fan, I use the Nitro Surf surfactant that was recommended to be used with it and It has always worked very well for me. When I finally got through my last jug I just bought another jug of the more expensive Raptor for my peace of mind. I am the type of guy that just sticks with what is working for me, even if it costs me a few more bucks. Interesting thread.
 
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