Maximizing Chestnut Growth with Rootmakers - Transfered from QDMA forum

See post 77. No option for natural cold stratification here, but I did cold stratify my chestnuts in the fridge, and have three properties in zone 8A. Will update my location.

On another note, I see recommendations for a series of transplanting chestnut in several sized root-maker pots. Any reason not to put them in the larger sized pots to begin with?
 
See post 77. No option for natural cold stratification here, but I did cold stratify my chestnuts in the fridge, and have three properties in zone 8A. Will update my location.

On another note, I see recommendations for a series of transplanting chestnut in several sized root-maker pots. Any reason not to put them in the larger sized pots to begin with?

I missed that. Got it now. In answer to your question, yes, root pruning needs a series of containers. Someone else just asked about that and I answered in more detail in post #75.

Thanks,

Jack
 
Good info Jack! I need to read all of this one day.
 
Starting my 6th year with chestnuts using rootmaker techniques

This is the first year that I did not order from Chestnut Ridge from Pike County as I gathered 53 from my class of 2016 progeny!!

So, yes they can produce 5 years from starting from seed!

Anyone else starting baby trees( chestnuts or otherwise) from seed in containers in 2021?

bill
 
Bill,

Congrats! Some of my Dunstans produced nuts in 5 years and I did the same, but not all of them. The ones that did produce nuts in 5 years did not produce enough nut volume to have an impact on my deer. Hopefully over time, that will increase.

I'm probably about down with high volume tree production. I'll probably put all my rootmaker containers up for sale soon. I'll keep enough to dabble, but my days of growing and planting them by the hundreds are over. I've begun tearing down my indoor grow setup as we are getting ready to move.

Thanks,

Jack
 
I know it can be labor intensive, but i love driving around the property and seeing "my children"

bill
 
I know it can be labor intensive, but i love driving around the property and seeing "my children"

bill
Yes, it is very satisficing to watch them grow!
 
Great thread guys keep it updated please.
This will be the first year I’ll have chestnuts off my trees to plant. (+- 30)

After the 3 gal. Rootmaker ; When they are ready to plant in ground how do you do it. I’ve always had to correct the roots before planting. If I us the RM correctly will I be able to just pull out from pot and into ground without messing with roots?
 
Great thread guys keep it updated please.
This will be the first year I’ll have chestnuts off my trees to plant. (+- 30)

After the 3 gal. Rootmaker ; When they are ready to plant in ground how do you do it. I’ve always had to correct the roots before planting. If I us the RM correctly will I be able to just pull out from pot and into ground without messing with roots?

Yes, because they are air pruned, there is no disturbance to the root ball when you plant. How you plant may depend on your soil. I have heavy clay soil with low infiltration compared to the Promix medium I use in the containers. So, I need to take special steps when I plant. If you have sandy soil, that is well drained, you may not have to take these measures. Here is the technique I useL

1) I select a planting site where ground water will not drain into the hole. This is important in clay.

2) I use an auger on my tractor the same diameter as a 3 gal RB 2 container and dig a hole a couple feet deep. Much deeper than the container.

3) I use a hand rake to scratch up the sides of the hole. Clay soil can glaze when you use an auger in some conditions, so hand raking resolves that.

4) I then back fill the hole with quarry stone. (#57). I then add some of the native clay soil back on top of the stone.

5) I unwrap the RB 2 container from around the root ball and remove the bottom.

6) I shove the root ball into the hole. It is a tight fit and sometimes I need to stand on it to seat it.

7) I leave about 1" of promix above ground level with the bottom seated. This allows for settling and more.

8) I then mound native clay around the tree on to the promix root ball.


Here is why I use this method and how it works. The amount of water that infiltrates the Promix is limited to the rain that lands on it. Little if any ground water gets into the hole. Instead of the water pooling around the roots and killing the tree, it drains into the "pond" I created with the stone below the root ball. This solves this issue of heavy rain pooling in the promix and killing the tree with our heavy spring rain. When the dry period of summer rolls around, the opposite happens. The promix dries out and water evaporates from it faster then the native clay. Because rootmaker grown trees start growing almost immediately and the hole is a very tight fit, by the time summer rolls around, the lateral roots have penetrated into the native clay around the hole which retains water well.


Again, if I had loam or sandy loam, I would just dig a hole the size of the root ball and plant the tree, but special consideration are needed because of the relative water infiltration differences between clay and Promix medium.

By the way, I'm old enough that it is time to spin down my large scale growing trees from nuts, so I'm getting rid of most of containers. If you decide to go with a root pruning system, you might want to check out my liquidation thread: https://habitat-talk.com/index.php?threads/discounted-rootmaker-containers-for-sale.13557/

Thanks,

Jack
 
Yes, because they are air pruned, there is no disturbance to the root ball when you plant. How you plant may depend on your soil. I have heavy clay soil with low infiltration compared to the Promix medium I use in the containers. So, I need to take special steps when I plant. If you have sandy soil, that is well drained, you may not have to take these measures. Here is the technique I useL

1) I select a planting site where ground water will not drain into the hole. This is important in clay.

2) I use an auger on my tractor the same diameter as a 3 gal RB 2 container and dig a hole a couple feet deep. Much deeper than the container.

3) I use a hand rake to scratch up the sides of the hole. Clay soil can glaze when you use an auger in some conditions, so hand raking resolves that.

4) I then back fill the hole with quarry stone. (#57). I then add some of the native clay soil back on top of the stone.

5) I unwrap the RB 2 container from around the root ball and remove the bottom.

6) I shove the root ball into the hole. It is a tight fit and sometimes I need to stand on it to seat it.

7) I leave about 1" of promix above ground level with the bottom seated. This allows for settling and more.

8) I then mound native clay around the tree on to the promix root ball.


Here is why I use this method and how it works. The amount of water that infiltrates the Promix is limited to the rain that lands on it. Little if any ground water gets into the hole. Instead of the water pooling around the roots and killing the tree, it drains into the "pond" I created with the stone below the root ball. This solves this issue of heavy rain pooling in the promix and killing the tree with our heavy spring rain. When the dry period of summer rolls around, the opposite happens. The promix dries out and water evaporates from it faster then the native clay. Because rootmaker grown trees start growing almost immediately and the hole is a very tight fit, by the time summer rolls around, the lateral roots have penetrated into the native clay around the hole which retains water well.


Again, if I had loam or sandy loam, I would just dig a hole the size of the root ball and plant the tree, but special consideration are needed because of the relative water infiltration differences between clay and Promix medium.

By the way, I'm old enough that it is time to spin down my large scale growing trees from nuts, so I'm getting rid of most of containers. If you decide to go with a root pruning system, you might want to check out my liquidation thread: https://habitat-talk.com/index.php?threads/discounted-rootmaker-containers-for-sale.13557/

Thanks,

Jack

I don’t grow any chestnuts, but it is interesting how you plant on clay.

I have always lived on light soil. Our trees were always planted with a hole around the tree to collect moisture.

The last few years I have run out of land to plant apple trees, so I created mounds of dirt in low areas. This year, the worst drought in 50 years has hit, and those mounds have quickly dried out. The best growth is a mound with a hole ( imagine a donut shape) on top of the mound in those formerly wet areas.

The ‘donut’ collects what little rain we get or the buckets of water I carry about every 4 days.

Sorry to steal the thread, but just a different planting method on different soils.

For trees that depend on a tap root and are on well drained sites, I wonder if air pruning is the best thing for long term survival. Maybe even on clay if the tap root needs to penetrate the clay. I don’t know what chestnuts natural root system looks like.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Ethan,

Follow Jack's recommendation with the caveat that our ecoregion in east texas is brutal on chestnuts

My best success has been on north and east facing slopes with sandy loam soil

bill
 
See Post#10 in chestnut help thread......

bill
 
I don’t grow any chestnuts, but it is interesting how you plant on clay.

I have always lived on light soil. Our trees were always planted with a hole around the tree to collect moisture.

The last few years I have run out of land to plant apple trees, so I created mounds of dirt in low areas. This year, the worst drought in 50 years has hit, and those mounds have quickly dried out. The best growth is a mound with a hole ( imagine a donut shape) on top of the mound in those formerly wet areas.

The ‘donut’ collects what little rain we get or the buckets of water I carry about every 4 days.

Sorry to steal the thread, but just a different planting method on different soils.

For trees that depend on a tap root and are on well drained sites, I wonder if air pruning is the best thing for long term survival. Maybe even on clay if the tap root needs to penetrate the clay. I don’t know what chestnuts natural root system looks like.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sandbur,

I think it is more a function of how arid the region is and how many levels of air pruning you want to do. I've seen some air pruned trees with 3' rootballs when they were planted in their final location. They needed heavy equipment to remove and transport them. Not practical for high volume wildlife trees but the technique is not limited to 3 gal containers. Large in-ground bags can also be used.

Well drained soils are not an issue if water is available in the top few feet of soil for a full size tree. Remember, as long as water and nutrients are in reach of the root ball, it is much more efficient at uptake. It is probably a combination of both rainfall and soil type that matters. There are a few areas of the country where I would not use this system and they are areas that are prone to prolong drought with soil types that allow the top 3' of water to dry out.

Like everything else, nothing is free. In most places, the tap root is only important to a tree when it is young. It has a very inefficient root system because so much energy is put into the tap root. This is to allow at least some root tips to get down far enough to get water when the tree and root system is tiny. When we grow them in containers up to 3 gal, we eliminate that need in most climate/soil types by caring for them. The benefit is a much faster growing tree with a much more efficient root system that does not have the sleep, creep, leap when field planting.

Keep in mind that apples (on clonal root stock) have no tap root and have a much less efficient root system when planted, so if you can get them to grow in your soil type, a tree from an air pruned system would do much better. Granted the planting technique may be different. I often buy clonal rootstock and put it in 3 gal RB2 containers and grow it out and graft it. Those trees will do better when planted than directly planting the clonal rootstock.

As for clay soil, you don't need a tap root to penetrate clay. As long as you hand-rake the sides of the planting hole if dug with an auger, there is no problem with lateral root tips penetrating the clay. They do it quite quickly. Here, we can get a lot of rain in the spring, so I take care that chestnuts are not drowned, but we can have quite dry summers. I've never had a root pruned tree die due to lack of water in the summer that was planted from a 3 gal RB2. Our clay soil only dries out in the top few inches. I did a lot of experimenting and here is what I found:

- Planting trees from 18s is a waste of time. Very few survive here.

- Planting trees from 1 gal RB2s has good survival rates. Most trees survive, but few flourish.

- Planting them for 3 gal RB2s works great. Almost all survive, and most flourish.

Keep in mind that none get supplemental water or much after care because I planted them in high volume.

Direct seeding can be a great tools as well, but it has its down side too. When direct seeding, you get a slower growing tree, because there is less energy from the less efficient root system and resources are more limited than a well cared for container environment. Any care requires a field trip, versus caring for a hundred trees on your deck. More importantly, the quality of the tree is a roll of the dice. With sexual reproduction, you get seeds with a large variety of potential. You may get a fast growing tree or a slow one. You have to put a lot of energy into planting and protecting the seedling in the field with tin cans and tree tubes, especially with chestnuts or other high energy nuts that rodents like. Then you may end up with a marginal tree by chance. With a root pruning container system you can cull trees.

I start with many more nuts than I need. Some will never germinate (wasted protection effort when direct seeding). Then, some of the seedlings will really grow stronger than others in the 18s. When I transplant to 1 gal RB2s, I cull and only take the best seedlings. When I transplant again to 3 gal RB2s, I have another opportunity to cull. So, at planting time, the best and brightest have risen to the top. Unlike in nature where the resources play a role, resources are unlimited in a container system so poor performing trees are performing poorly because of genetics, not a lack of resources.

BOTTOM LINE:

Each technique has advantages and disadvantages. You simply need to match the technique to your conditions and situation. In my case, starting trees indoors under lights in root pruning containers scratched a cabin fever itch for habitat. It allowed me to care for hundreds of trees at a very low cost per tree at my home for the first growing season or two. Because of the indoor start, the first growing season was extended as well. My farm is an hour and a half from my home, so I could never have provided good care for direct planted seedlings. The results was much bigger faster growing trees much sooner at a lower cost with a lot of learning and fun along the way.

Thanks,

Jack
Thanks,

Jack
 
Sandbur,

I think it is more a function of how arid the region is and how many levels of air pruning you want to do. I've seen some air pruned trees with 3' rootballs when they were planted in their final location. They needed heavy equipment to remove and transport them. Not practical for high volume wildlife trees but the technique is not limited to 3 gal containers. Large in-ground bags can also be used.

Well drained soils are not an issue if water is available in the top few feet of soil for a full size tree. Remember, as long as water and nutrients are in reach of the root ball, it is much more efficient at uptake. It is probably a combination of both rainfall and soil type that matters. There are a few areas of the country where I would not use this system and they are areas that are prone to prolong drought with soil types that allow the top 3' of water to dry out.

Like everything else, nothing is free. In most places, the tap root is only important to a tree when it is young. It has a very inefficient root system because so much energy is put into the tap root. This is to allow at least some root tips to get down far enough to get water when the tree and root system is tiny. When we grow them in containers up to 3 gal, we eliminate that need in most climate/soil types by caring for them. The benefit is a much faster growing tree with a much more efficient root system that does not have the sleep, creep, leap when field planting.

Keep in mind that apples (on clonal root stock) have no tap root and have a much less efficient root system when planted, so if you can get them to grow in your soil type, a tree from an air pruned system would do much better. Granted the planting technique may be different. I often buy clonal rootstock and put it in 3 gal RB2 containers and grow it out and graft it. Those trees will do better when planted than directly planting the clonal rootstock.

As for clay soil, you don't need a tap root to penetrate clay. As long as you hand-rake the sides of the planting hole if dug with an auger, there is no problem with lateral root tips penetrating the clay. They do it quite quickly. Here, we can get a lot of rain in the spring, so I take care that chestnuts are not drowned, but we can have quite dry summers. I've never had a root pruned tree die due to lack of water in the summer that was planted from a 3 gal RB2. Our clay soil only dries out in the top few inches. I did a lot of experimenting and here is what I found:

- Planting trees from 18s is a waste of time. Very few survive here.

- Planting trees from 1 gal RB2s has good survival rates. Most trees survive, but few flourish.

- Planting them for 3 gal RB2s works great. Almost all survive, and most flourish.

Keep in mind that none get supplemental water or much after care because I planted them in high volume.

Direct seeding can be a great tools as well, but it has its down side too. When direct seeding, you get a slower growing tree, because there is less energy from the less efficient root system and resources are more limited than a well cared for container environment. Any care requires a field trip, versus caring for a hundred trees on your deck. More importantly, the quality of the tree is a roll of the dice. With sexual reproduction, you get seeds with a large variety of potential. You may get a fast growing tree or a slow one. You have to put a lot of energy into planting and protecting the seedling in the field with tin cans and tree tubes, especially with chestnuts or other high energy nuts that rodents like. Then you may end up with a marginal tree by chance. With a root pruning container system you can cull trees.

I start with many more nuts than I need. Some will never germinate (wasted protection effort when direct seeding). Then, some of the seedlings will really grow stronger than others in the 18s. When I transplant to 1 gal RB2s, I cull and only take the best seedlings. When I transplant again to 3 gal RB2s, I have another opportunity to cull. So, at planting time, the best and brightest have risen to the top. Unlike in nature where the resources play a role, resources are unlimited in a container system so poor performing trees are performing poorly because of genetics, not a lack of resources.

BOTTOM LINE:

Each technique has advantages and disadvantages. You simply need to match the technique to your conditions and situation. In my case, starting trees indoors under lights in root pruning containers scratched a cabin fever itch for habitat. It allowed me to care for hundreds of trees at a very low cost per tree at my home for the first growing season or two. Because of the indoor start, the first growing season was extended as well. My farm is an hour and a half from my home, so I could never have provided good care for direct planted seedlings. The results was much bigger faster growing trees much sooner at a lower cost with a lot of learning and fun along the way.

Thanks,

Jack
Thanks,

Jack

I am speaking mostly of apple trees in the following post.

I have switched to using mostly seedlings instead of clinal rootstocks as I feel they do better. Overall, my wild swamp crab rootstock has done the best. Dolgo seedling rootstock seems to be a very good choice.

My buddy mentioned the other day that he wished he had collected seed from local wild trees over ten years ago. He feels the wild, nongrafted trees are doing the best in this severe drought. Natural selection at it’s best.

It would be nice to see what root systems are on these wild trees. Those on his heavier clay soils are probably different than the root systems on my lighter soils where wild apples only seem to grow along or near waterways(prairie environment here and only about 35 miles between us).

Again, sorry to steal the thread.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I am speaking mostly of apple trees in the following post.

I have switched to using mostly seedlings instead of clinal rootstocks as I feel they do better. Overall, my wild swamp crab rootstock has done the best. Dolgo seedling rootstock seems to be a very good choice.

My buddy mentioned the other day that he wished he had collected seed from local wild trees over ten years ago. He feels the wild, nongrafted trees are doing the best in this severe drought. Natural selection at it’s best.

It would be nice to see what root systems are on these wild trees. Those on his heavier clay soils are probably different than the root systems on my lighter soils where wild apples only seem to grow along or near waterways(prairie environment here and only about 35 miles between us).

Again, sorry to steal the thread.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
No apologies needed. I think using wild crab rootstock is a great idea. I wish I had wild crabs growing here. I did a project where I grew apples from seed (Dolgo and Siberian Red). I started them in 18s in the winter under lights and did the normal transplant to 1 and 3 gal RB2s. I then planted them in the field. The following year I field grafted trees. I like the idea of having full size trees on crab rootstock.

Thanks,

Jack
 
Great thread guys keep it updated please.
This will be the first year I’ll have chestnuts off my trees to plant. (+- 30)

After the 3 gal. Rootmaker ; When they are ready to plant in ground how do you do it. I’ve always had to correct the roots before planting. If I us the RM correctly will I be able to just pull out from pot and into ground without messing with roots?

As for updating the thread, I happened to drive past the example tree used in this thread today and took a pic:

0411239f-bb4a-41ab-9ade-baf8a906f418.jpg


Thanks,

Jack
 
Just re-re-read your thread. Always learning something new. In a week or two I am taking out of the fridge and planting in the 18's. Pretty excited, even though they are not my "babies". I split mine in half around a month ago and planted roughly 64 in my garden bed. If nothing happens I still have 60+. I have not bought a light or have a table specific to growing trees indoors. Ill probably just use one of those plastic fold out tables from walmart and build something to get circulation. As for the light , I gots not idea. Anyways good luck with every body's planting season.
TreeDaddy, Im not sure I've mentioned before but you ought to try Mexican white oak. It is a kick ass oak tree. Similar to a live oak in the way it hangs on to its leaves and the texture of the leaves. Last Feb when it got -4 degrees, it did loose all of its leaves, but came back with something to prove. If I remember this weekend ill take a picture. adios
 
Just re-re-read your thread. Always learning something new. In a week or two I am taking out of the fridge and planting in the 18's. Pretty excited, even though they are not my "babies". I split mine in half around a month ago and planted roughly 64 in my garden bed. If nothing happens I still have 60+. I have not bought a light or have a table specific to growing trees indoors. Ill probably just use one of those plastic fold out tables from walmart and build something to get circulation. As for the light , I gots not idea. Anyways good luck with every body's planting season.
TreeDaddy, Im not sure I've mentioned before but you ought to try Mexican white oak. It is a kick ass oak tree. Similar to a live oak in the way it hangs on to its leaves and the texture of the leaves. Last Feb when it got -4 degrees, it did loose all of its leaves, but came back with something to prove. If I remember this weekend ill take a picture. adios

As for lights, there is noting better than inexpensive fluorescent or LED shop lights. They are cool and can be hung at an angle a few inches from the trees. The express trays let you sort your trees by height. No need for anything plant specific or expensive. Four 2-bulb 4' shop lights hung a few inches apart provides plenty of light for 6 express trays of 18's.

Best of luck. Starting trees under lights in the winter can be a great cabin fever cure!
 
Inexpensive shop lights with regular fluorescent bulbs are very cost effective. Spend your effort on adjustability so you can keep adjusting them to keep them close to your trees rather than on expensive fancy lights.
Use express trays for your 18s so you can reorganize chestnuts according to height. This also helps with light adjustability.
Use a well drained professional soilless mix. You can water too much with this and rootmakers but you can water too often.
Unless you know your water chemistry is right, start thinking about how to collect rain water and to store and use it indoors in the winter.
I bought a whole-house atomizing humidifier that I tied into the plumbing. Instead of venting it into my duct work, I vent it directly into the basement. I have a rotating fan blowing at the output vent to distribute the humidity through the basement. I believe humidity is good but it is a second order factor.
Keep your ambient heat between 70 and 80.
Use a fan to get good stem flex indoors, but use it for short periods. It can dry out leaves and kill trees if used too much.
I am experimenting with bottom heat. I used it for Pawpaw last year and it worked very well. I'm going to try it with some chestnuts this year.
Hope that helps,
Jack
how did the bottom heating experiment go?
 
how did the bottom heating experiment go?

There are some cases where it makes sense, but not so much with 18s. You need an air gap for root pruning purposes below the 18s, So, heating from mats is really only by convection versus conduction. That means you still need to contain the heat somehow. It is probably just as good to put an oil filled electric heater in the grow room. I can see it used in some special situations, but it is not the general practice that I'd follow.
 
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