Impact of Ammo shortage on New Hunters

[yoderjac]

This is youth weekend in VA. I invited a dad with two boys out to the farm yesterday. I put him and they youngest kid in one box blind and I took the older boy to another box blind. The younger boy got to see a turkey up close, but did not see any deer. The older boy and I saw 5 does at about 120 yards. I ask the boy what is comfortable range was. He said "inside 70 yards". He showed amazing discipline as the deer moved in our direction feeding along. I continued ranging them for him. The worked within 76 yards and the boy did not budge. They then started working back the way they came. I thought those deer leaving would have made him anxious to shoot. Nope! He was just patient. After moving off to about 125 yards, they worked back again to about 100 yards. The boy was shooting a .308, so the gun had plenty of range. Suddenly, a deer stepped out from another direction and was only 65 yards.

The video tells the next part of the story:

The youngster thought he made a good shot. From his description, it sounded like it was a double lung shot. Unfortunately, the deer was occluded by the corner post of the blind from my viewing angle, so I did not see the impact. I did see the deer turn and bolt running hard. We found no blood at the impact site. The 4 of us looked for that deer for several hours, including my using a FLIR. We found zero blood or hair. After the long search, we concluded it was likely a miss. I'll probably find out next week when I go back down. Buzzards and smell will likely give it away if it was a killing shot. The deer was broadside.

After we were done looking, we stopped for food on the way back and did a little post-mortem lessons-learned on the hunt. We talked about marking the exact tree where we last lost sight of the deer to maximize the chances of finding blood rather than the "He ran into the woods in this general area approach". One of the things I mentioned to him was spending more time on the range.

Well, that is where the title of this thread comes in. His response was this. Ammo for my gun is so hard to find and expensive (presuming you can find it), you really have to save the ammo you have for hunting. While this may not be an issue for us more experienced shooters, it can really be a problem for a new shooter.

I wonder if there is any end in sight to this shortage. I paid about 3x for some Federal 210 LRPs so I could sight in my new smokeless muzzleloader this summer and I got lucky visiting Hogdon's website multiple times a day until I got lucky and snagged some powder.

The more shortage there is, the faster it leaves the shelves as people naturally stock up when they can.

As hard as it is on us more experienced folks, I can't imagine what it would be like to be a young man and not be able to go to the range and shoot.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[4wanderingeyes]

I have found ammon more available in the last couple months. I can actually go into a store and find 9mm, or .380 ammo, sure it is more money, but it is available.

 

[yoderjac]

I have found ammon more available in the last couple months. I can actually go into a store and find 9mm, or .380 ammo, sure it is more money, but it is available.

I think both availability and cost come in to play for a youngster. Granted, once a kid becomes old enough to get a job, it simply becomes a priority issue, but for younger folks cost matters. I do agree that that availability is easing somewhat with finished ammo. LRPs are still very had to come by last I checked.

 

[Bill]

I’ve got plenty of end of the world and self defense ammo. But my hunting stock is getting low. Can’t find my favorite reloading powder or bullets either.

good job with the kids.

 

[yoderjac]

I was able to get the specialized bullets I needed for the smokeless muzzleloader, but I had to wait several months for them to be in stock. If you get really jammed on H4198 let me know. They only had 8 lb jugs when they became available for 8 hours, so I bought an 8 lb jug. Unless I start reloading, it will take me a lifetime to use 8 lbs of powder in that muzzleloader.

 

[Bill]

Thanks for the offer. I used IMR 4831. Just going to have to keep my eyes open for some. I’d buy 8 lbs and never use it all.

 

[yoderjac]

Yep, I would have bought a pound or two but they only had 8 lb jugs available. I do have a couple friends shooting smokeless that use it, so I'm sure they will call in favors.

 

[Kdog]

Great job getting the kids out there.

 

[Troubles Trees]

Way to get the youth out there Jack, we all need to do as much of this as possible!
The ammo shortage has to be intentional from somewhere, allegedly manufacturers are putting it out there just as fast as before but still dry around me. I have heard whispers that the government is buying it, but that doesn't seem plausable in so many cartridges. I do find it odd that acknowledging the shortage the government decided to cut off foreign suppliers like Russia. We have no problem buying everything from China.
I have looked for a very long time for ammo for my shotgun, Savage 220, I can't even find lesser brand ammo than my guns prefers. 20 Ga is simply not available in my area and hasn't been for over a year.

 

[4wanderingeyes]

It’s been years, but I use to take my son, and several of his friends out and shoot clay pigeons every weekend from August through October. A couple cases of shells, and a few boxes of clay pigeons, would cost about $140. It was costing me about 3 times that and I just couldn’t do it anymore. The other parents wouldn’t help pay, so I stopped doing it. There was usually 8 of us every weekend that would spend 3-4 hours shooting. I felt horrible that I had to stop doing it. Until one day I ran into a couple of the kids at a Pheasants forever meeting, and they told me that was their highlight of growing up, and it made them into good hunters.
I wished I could have continued it, but cost was a factor.

 

[Bszweda]

I tried 3 different states and two weekends 7+ gun stores to finally find 20 ga hornady set ammo. In Illinois its hard for me to get ammo shipped to me so that was out of the question I purchased 10 boxes so I am set for a few years. ( I should've purchased it all =) and then drive/stand outside basspro selingl it for triple the price. I was starting to come to the realization I might not be able to use a shotgun this year due to the shortage. Were living in strange times for sure.

 

[PatinPA]

Good job with the kids. I have a .280 and a 300 savage. Ammo has been next to impossible to find. I've had my best luck at some small sporting goods stores. Found a box of 300 savage ammo at one last year and I had to pay about double what I normally would but I was down to a handful of shells for it and needed to shoot in a new scope. The .280 has been much more difficult to find.

 

[4wanderingeyes]

I happen to know a person that works in the gun department at a large retailer of guns, ammo and sporting goods. You want to know why the shelves never have ammo on them? The employees buy them by the pallet, then resell them, for 5 times the price they bought it for. The person I know had made more money in a year reselling ammo then he made 3 years combined at the store. Now the store has caught on, and stopped selling the ammo to them at a discount, so they need to purchase it at retail, but they are still making a killing. If you want ammo, get to know the guys in the ammo department personally. You may not get a great deal on it, but you can buy pretty much any ammo from them.

For instance, I had asked him about 9mm ammo, he asked me how much I wanted, I asked him how much can I get? He said he has about 100,000 rounds on hand now, but it will be all sold by the end of the week, and they never know how many more will be in the next shipment, or what calibers will be in it. The black market of ammo.

 

[Hoytvectrix]

I tried 3 different states and two weekends 7+ gun stores to finally find 20 ga hornady set ammo. In Illinois its hard for me to get ammo shipped to me so that was out of the question I purchased 10 boxes so I am set for a few years. ( I should've purchased it all =) and then drive/stand outside basspro selingl it for triple the price. I was starting to come to the realization I might not be able to use a shotgun this year due to the shortage. Were living in strange times for sure.

Annnd this is probably why there is a shortage. It was the same premise with toilet paper last year. I'm not knocking you in particular because honestly, I haven't been in your shoes. I have been striking out for finding ammo for a year now and I don't know how I would react if I found some in stock for a reasonable price. I just think it's worth pointing out that it may not be a conspiracy, and that it may just be regular old customer behavior that's causing a shortage.

 

[yoderjac]

I don't have kids of my own. I'm a Hunter Ed instructor in a metro area. There are always kids in my classes whose parents don't really have much of a hunting heritage to pass on. So, most of the kids I've taken out over the years have been very green. For them, it has been a completely new experience and much of my time in the stand has been keeping them safe and providing instruction. It has been basic stuff like getting them to control their movements, looking for game, getting them to watch animal demeanor and body position, helping with shot selection, and stuff like that.

What a delight it was to take out a boy who had a high interest and whose dad had taught him well. I was able to just sit back and enjoy watching him hunt. He has only killed one deer with dad when he was younger. He was very safety conscious. He was slow and quiet. He was obviously excited in the presence of game, but controlled his emotions and showed great discipline. Although he did not recover the deer and may well have missed, he learned and benefitted from the experience. It also gave his dad a chance to spend some one-on-one time with this younger brother who has less natural interest in hunting and more in associating himself with big brother and dad's interests. This may have been his first deer hunt.

Youth are the future of hunting and I just wonder if our behavior regarding ammo, as Hoytvectix points out, isn't having a negative impact on them. Even when I was a kid, the cost of ammo was an issue. One of my high school buddies bought a shotgun reloading station. Several of us would chip in for shot and powder and spend some evenings reloading shotgun shells for shooting clays. That kept the cost manageable.

Of course, way back then, you could only reload a paper hull so many times.

 

[Bszweda]

When you need something and can't find it the mindset of one becomes to horde when possible. I could of cleared there shelves out, but left some for other people. I just dont want to go through this again next year. Last year i had a similar issue but not as bad.The most frustrating thing is the big box stores say they have ammo available, but I think it was what wanderingeyes said and the employees aren't stocking it on the shelves and just buying it themselves. What was odd to me is the only ammo that seemed easily available was 556.

 

[Bill]

. What was odd to me is the only ammo that seemed easily available was 556.

that’s because we all stocked up on that during the Obama administration. Who needs another 2000 rounds.

 

[Bassattackr]

that’s because we all stocked up on that during the Obama administration.

Bingo. Just Obama 2.0 now.. People still want to stock up.. for many reasons

 

[4wanderingeyes]

All I know is I wouldnt want to be a fireman in todays world. I know if my house was on fire, lets just say I think it would be a neat show to watch from afar.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

All I know is I wouldnt want to be a fireman in todays world. I know if my house was on fire, lets just say I think it would be a neat show to watch from afar.

part of my house in college burned down. The firefighters said they got a scare when it reached all my reloading equipment and ammo in the garage