Growing a tree from a cutting

White Oak

5 year old buck +
I have some Northern Whitetail crabs and need to trim a few small branches off of them. Although they are Grafted trees....and this article says not to use grafted cuttings....since I'm in the south zone 7 do you think it's worth trying anyway , and whatever roots grow would work ?. https://www.gardeningknowhow.com/ornamental/trees/tgen/planting-trees-from-twigs.htm
 
So as I understand it....the reason we use grafted trees is so we can mix and match the combination of the top part (the part that produces the fruit and controls disease resistance) and the root part (which is more about soil adaptation and the size of the tree)....to get the desired result. If you get your cuttings to grow roots, it may not produce well. And most people don't want to mess with weak performers...and as such we use grafted trees. I would suggest talking to members here (much smarter than me) about getting some root stock and make your own grafted trees.
 
So as I understand it....the reason we use grafted trees is so we can mix and match the combination of the top part (the part that produces the fruit and controls disease resistance) and the root part (which is more about soil adaptation and the size of the tree)....to get the desired result. If you get your cuttings to grow roots, it may not produce well. And most people don't want to mess with weak performers...and as such we use grafted trees. I would suggest talking to members here (much smarter than me) about getting some root stock and make your own grafted trees.
I hear you , I may try it instead on my Pears that were seedlings from NativNurseries and a Dr Deer pear tree, just to see what happens.
 
If you want to start a tree from a cutting, look up "air layering". Some kinds of trees can be started from green or dormant cuttings and others can't. The problem is that when you try to start a tree from a cutting, the cutting has to produce sufficient roots quickly enough to support the top. Air layering, keeps the cutting attached to and fed by the tree while roots are being produced. You can generally get better success rates with this. One trick I've seen is to constrict the branch with a wire for a time period prior to air layering. This causes auxin to build facilitating root production.

Keep in mind that if you do this with an apple or pear tree, you will get a full size tree. This may or may not what you want. Full size trees take quite a while to bear fruit. What advantage do you see of using a cutting verses buying root stock for $2 or $3 bucks and grafting the scion to it?

Thanks,

Jack
 
Pear rootstocks are often rooted hardwood cuttings but the method is less successful with most apples. Apple success depends on the technique and the variety. I tried a method one year where the dormant cutting was treated with rooting hormone, placed in warmed soil while the tops were cold. This was supposed to allow the bottom to root before it broke dormancy. If it doesn't root, it will leaf out and then die. In my case, the bottoms rotted and nothing survived.

The easiest thing would be to cut them and stick them in a flower bed or garden spot. If any root and survive until fall, you can transplant then or wait another year and transplant. Nothing lost in trying. I did this with many of my pear scions last spring. Many still had some green leaves by fall but none grew. If any leaf out this spring, I'll try babying it more. Some guys have done this with the tops of their apple rootstocks left over from grafting. Stick them in the ground and you got something extra for the following year if any survive.
 
Planting apple twigs in the ground has produced nothing for me to date. I plan on jug planting apple twigs this week but will very surprised if any roots are grown. It is not much effort though so it will be tried. As mentioned cutting the right twig and grafting it onto rootstock is a proven method to reproduce the above ground part of the tree.
 
I hear you , I may try it instead on my Pears that were seedlings from NativNurseries and a Dr Deer pear tree, just to see what happens.
I just want to be clear...I am NOT an grafting/apple guru. We have others here that are FAR more experienced with this than I....so just reach out to them. As they are who I turn to for advice. I have nothing against experimentation...I just didn't want you to put all your eggs in one basket so to speak. In my opinion...if you want to propagate a specific variety of fruit tree you have...it's my understanding that bench grafting with a proper root stock would yield better results.

Most cuttings I have messed with are water loving species like willow and elderberry and the like....oh, and some MG.
 
If you want to start a tree from a cutting, look up "air layering". Some kinds of trees can be started from green or dormant cuttings and others can't. The problem is that when you try to start a tree from a cutting, the cutting has to produce sufficient roots quickly enough to support the top. Air layering, keeps the cutting attached to and fed by the tree while roots are being produced. You can generally get better success rates with this. One trick I've seen is to constrict the branch with a wire for a time period prior to air layering. This causes auxin to build facilitating root production.

Keep in mind that if you do this with an apple or pear tree, you will get a full size tree. This may or may not what you want. Full size trees take quite a while to bear fruit. What advantage do you see of using a cutting verses buying root stock for $2 or $3 bucks and grafting the scion to it?

Thanks,

Jack
Jack There are no advantages ,other than I've never bought root stock or done any grafting in my life. I prefer to buy good sized trees from Northern Whitetail Crabs , Blue Hill....and a few trees from Tractor Supply and Lowes to start with . However when these trees need to be pruned I just thought it might be cool to experiment with the cuttings....and see what happens with just a little bit of effort and zero cost like in this video
 
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Jack There are no advantages ,other than I've never bought root stock or done any grafting in my life. I prefer to buy good sized trees from Northern Whitetail Crabs , Blue Hill....and a few trees from Tractor Supply and Lowes to start with . However when these trees need to be pruned I just thought it might be cool to experiment with the cuttings....and see what happens with just a little bit of effort and zero cost like in this video

Are your Nrothern Whitetail Crabs grafted? Most named variety apples are but some crabs like dolgo can be seed grown. If they are not grafted, root cuttings may have better success than dormant or green cuttings. I've played with a cloning machine for starting cuttings with poor success, but I was working with trees that are harder to start from cuttings.

One more thought. I've been grafting for a few years and am no expert by any means. Apples graft pretty easily. If you scan the forum, you can find inexpensive grafting tools if you don't want to graft manually with a knife. I've used both. The tool I used has pretty high success rates. You can buy rootstock at a local nursery. Ask them what they use for full size trees. Some rootstock do better in some soils than others so your local nursery is a good bet.

So, a couple years ago, I took a grafting class at the local orchard. The master grafter there told a story about when he was young and they ran out of root stock, his father would send him out with a shovel to dig up some root cuttings from their existing trees. He would then graft scions directly to a root cutting.

If the Northern Whitetail Crabs are grafted, this may be an option. Dig up a couple root cuttings and try grafting scions from your trimming. If the the trees you have do well in your soil, you will be duplicating them.

Thanks,

Jack
 
Yoder.... beat me to it. Go dig a section of root out of the ground or if you see a rooted shoot coming up out of the ground from the apple tree (or another apple tree) that would be even better and take scion from the top and graft to it. I watched a video of a commercial nursery doing hundreds of scion to root grafts. They had 4-5 inch root sections and where grafting to them in mass so it has to work. PS. you can wait till spring to dig the roots.... You would be chiseling it out now up here.

I think you will find the consensus here is its a waste of time and effort to get them to grow via cuttings (apple trees) you would be better off just buying rootstock and actually end up with trees. We have all given it a try. Go for it if you want you could be the first to have success... I would without a doubt give the root trick a try... The only other way is to cut an apple tree off just above the ground and stool out the new shoots and generate your own RS in time.... or plant seeds.
 
Planting apple twigs in the ground has produced nothing for me to date. I plan on jug planting apple twigs this week but will very surprised if any roots are grown. It is not much effort though so it will be tried. As mentioned cutting the right twig and grafting it onto rootstock is a proven method to reproduce the above ground part of the tree.
Thanks for the info Chainsaw. I have another question if you or anyone else can help me out I'd appreciate it. Like I said I have never tried any type of grafting or tree propagation before....all I have done is grown some select oak trees I've found from acorns lol. As for Crabapples I forgot I have an existing prairifire crabapple tree that I could do some grafting experiments with to see if it it will grow larger crabs . For starters I don't think I would top work the entire tree....I'd probably be better off grafting some of my Northern whitetail crabs scion/cuttings onto some branches and see what happens, since I'm not sure what NWC crab grows the best here since the have only been in the ground a year. As for supplies...I watched a couple of videos CAN I use electrical tape as grafting tape (as I've seen on video) ? and should I use wood glue or tree wound sealer ?
 
I've been grafting for a few years, but there are a lot more experienced grafters on this forum. I find that electrical tape works great for bark grafting and maybe cleft grafting when you cut down the tree, but not too well for other types of grafting. Bark grafting does not rely on cambium alignment, it relies on pressure. The stretch in electrical tape helps provide some pressure. Cleft grafting requires both cambium alignment and some pressure. Depending on the tree size there may be enough pressure without tape, but electrical tape can provide some when needed. In both cases the tape is going on mature bark and is generally not a problem removing it.

Grafting tape is a bit different. It can perform a number of functions. On function is to keep the scion from drying out while it is waiting to take. You wrap the entire scion in it. The grafting tape I like is M type. It thins when it stretches and buds on the scion can easily push through it. When using W&T or any method that matched the diameter of the scion to the rootstock cambium alignment is important. Here, grafting tape covers the graft keeping it from drying out. I find issues using electrical tape for this. It will seal the graft, but removal can be an issue. It can rip young bark and be too restrictive if you don't remove it. I'm not saying it can't be done.

As for sealer, I typically only use it when I bark graft and cut down the tree. I keep it away from the graft, but I use it to cover the large wound. I like Doc Farwell's, but any laytex paint will work. Make sure it does not enter the graft area. Doc Farwell's is a bit thicker and not a runny as paint so I can control it better.

The tools/supplies you use as well as the timing are related to the type of grafting you intend to do.

Thanks,

Jack
 
White Oak, I am new to grafting myself only having started it last March. All I have grafted is lots of the whip and tongue graft onto rootstock and a few cleft grafts onto rootstock. I have no experience grafting to standing trees yet. Some people on this forum do have that experience though so someone will likely answer your question.
 
You can use electrical type - get good tape and some do reverse the tape sticky side out for the initial wrap layer then flip it back, I use electrical tape but it does have the draw back of peeling bark at times. If I do the untapping on a warm day its not an issue for the most part but this last fall I ran into colder weather and had to stop till this spring when it warms up I will pull the remaining tape jobs.

Your most likely better off getting a good grafting tape Im just cheap and was doing a bunch. Your going to be pretty frustrated if you do only a few and pull the bark on them. Next go around I will keep using super 33 3m but do the reverse first warp then come back over with the sticky side and lap out and over on the ends to get a good tight weather proof/ moisture sealing wrap.

For whip and tongue you need no sealer for top working larger branch ends via cleft grafting someone else needs to answer that but in general you will seal it in some manner.
 
You can use electrical type - get good tape and some do reverse the tape sticky side out for the initial wrap layer then flip it back, I use electrical tape but it does have the draw back of peeling bark at times. If I do the untapping on a warm day its not an issue for the most part but this last fall I ran into colder weather and had to stop till this spring when it warms up I will pull the remaining tape jobs.

Your most likely better off getting a good grafting tape Im just cheap and was doing a bunch. Your going to be pretty frustrated if you do only a few and pull the bark on them. Next go around I will keep using super 33 3m but do the reverse first warp then come back over with the sticky side and lap out and over on the ends to get a good tight weather proof/ moisture sealing wrap.

For whip and tongue you need no sealer for top working larger branch ends via cleft grafting someone else needs to answer that but in general you will seal it in some manner.

I just slit the e tape with a scalpel in mid summer and remove it if it peals off easily. The problem is the ones that I forget.

I just found some topworks on a flowering crab that had grocery bag wrapping and the date was 2017!

I use toilet wax rings wax for sealer.


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The problem is the ones that I forget.
LOL, I know what you mean, I have found a few branch whip n tongue grafts I randomly did on some trees out in the field still taped from a couple years ago.
 
Pears are the only fruit tree cuttings that have survived for me just planting them in garden, I used root hormone on them and like others have said very slow growers.
I use electrical tape for my grafts too, after a couple months I slice it and try and gently take it off so graft can harden. The reverse tape first wrap is a great tip cavey!
 
Pears are the only fruit tree cuttings that have survived for me just planting them in garden, I used root hormone on them and like others have said very slow growers.
I use electrical tape for my grafts too, after a couple months I slice it and try and gently take it off so graft can harden. The reverse tape first wrap is a great tip cavey!
The tape trick isnt mine and I dont want to take credit for that one... its from another member here and I apologize for off hand not remembering who but it is a good tip worth repeating. Nice thing about this site is info gets shared.
 
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