Fall food plot plan advice/help

[Deerkiller308]

Hey all, it’s about a month before spring here in NC but I’m trying to go ahead and get prepared, Id like to keep food growing for the deer all year. I have two food plots both about a 1/4 acre that have been limed according to soil test. I will throw my fertilizer and seeds together. On food plot 1, I’m going to throw a oats, wheat , and rye mix. On food plot 2, I’m throwing just a wheat and rye mix. What seeding rate do y’all recommend? Im not to keen on planting any different seeds than this as shade/deer browse limit me. Both of these plots are on small hills so small seeds like clover tend to wash away, even after cultipacking. In total, I’m thinking of throwing a total mix of 200lbs of seeds per acre on both of these plots. Plot 1, 80lbs of wheat/acre, 80lbs rye/acre, and 40lbs oats/acre and on plot 2, 100lbs of rye/acre and 100lbs of wheat/acre. Is this too little or too much? I don’t want to broadcast to thick and overcrowd the plots but I also don’t want to throw out to little and have deer wipe it all out. And by the way, I will broadcast my seed, till it in slightly, and then cultipack.

Also, I bought some 34-0-0 that I’m planning to throw out on these plots a month after germination. Is 200lbs per acre of 34-0-0 too much?

Im sorry I’ve ran my mouth so long but this is my third attempt at a successful food plot. In past years I’ve skipped on things like soil tests, fertilizer, lime, etc, and its really screwed me over. I want to actually do it right this year and see what Happens.

 

[crowskee]

I'm no expert but that is way too much seed. Also I wouldn't plant grain crops for a spring plot. Do you plan on planting a fall crop in the same plots? If so I believe buckwheat or annual clover would serve you better for summer then plant your grain in late summer or early fall. As for the fertilizer only a soil test could answer that.

 

[Deerkiller308]

Yes, I am going to plant a fall crop in these plots, probably rye, wheat, and oats. I do have a little bit of buckwheat that I could throw out but I’m worried it might not get enough sunlight and it might be overgrazed.
For when I plant a fall food plot, do you think 60lbs wheat/acre, 60lbs rye/acre, and 30lbs oats/acre would still be too much?

 

[crowskee]

I plant 100lbs per acre. I would go with 30lbs of each per acre or what ever combination would total 100lbs.

 

[Deerkiller308]

I plant 100lbs per acre. I would go with 30lbs of each per acre or what ever combination would total 100lbs.

Ok thank you

 

[yoderjac]

Hey all, it’s about a month before spring here in NC but I’m trying to go ahead and get prepared, Id like to keep food growing for the deer all year. I have two food plots both about a 1/4 acre that have been limed according to soil test. I will throw my fertilizer and seeds together. On food plot 1, I’m going to throw a oats, wheat , and rye mix. On food plot 2, I’m throwing just a wheat and rye mix. What seeding rate do y’all recommend? Im not to keen on planting any different seeds than this as shade/deer browse limit me. Both of these plots are on small hills so small seeds like clover tend to wash away, even after cultipacking. In total, I’m thinking of throwing a total mix of 200lbs of seeds per acre on both of these plots. Plot 1, 80lbs of wheat/acre, 80lbs rye/acre, and 40lbs oats/acre and on plot 2, 100lbs of rye/acre and 100lbs of wheat/acre. Is this too little or too much? I don’t want to broadcast to thick and overcrowd the plots but I also don’t want to throw out to little and have deer wipe it all out. And by the way, I will broadcast my seed, till it in slightly, and then cultipack.

Also, I bought some 34-0-0 that I’m planning to throw out on these plots a month after germination. Is 200lbs per acre of 34-0-0 too much?

Im sorry I’ve ran my mouth so long but this is my third attempt at a successful food plot. In past years I’ve skipped on things like soil tests, fertilizer, lime, etc, and its really screwed me over. I want to actually do it right this year and see what Happens.

The first question I'd ask is Why? NC is far enough south that planting summer food plots makes sense as part of a QDM program, but that requires scale. A half acre of food plots won't have any measurable impact on the herd. Two quarter acre plots can be great for attraction, but those kind of objectives are typically focused on the fall hunting season. Spring planted plots are much more difficult to plant in the spring in the south. Weed competition can be problematic. So, my first thought is to focus on fall unless you have some reason (which you might) to plant in the spring.

So, if you are struggling getting a successful plot, focus on fall. Typically, cool season plots have much less weed competition. Many fall crops like Winter Rye are tolerant of poor pH and low fertility.

Best of Luck,

Jack

 

[Deerkiller308]

The first question I'd ask is Why? NC is far enough south that planting summer food plots makes sense as part of a QDM program, but that requires scale. A half acre of food plots won't have any measurable impact on the herd. Two quarter acre plots can be great for attraction, but those kind of objectives are typically focused on the fall hunting season. Spring planted plots are much more difficult to plant in the spring in the south. Weed competition can be problematic. So, my first thought is to focus on fall unless you have some reason (which you might) to plant in the spring.

So, if you are struggling getting a successful plot, focus on fall. Typically, cool season plots have much less weed competition. Many fall crops like Winter Rye are tolerant of poor pH and low fertility.

Best of Luck,

Jack

I primarily use these plots as fall kill plots, but the reason I’m trying to plant a spring plot is because honestly, the area around us has become severely over hunted, if I can do anything to get an edge on the next person it is worth it. Also, a lot of people around us have started clear cutting any woods they have, and hunters have become trigger happy, so a lot of deer have moved out of the area. If one of the food plots can entice a stray deer to come and stay in the area than its worth it. So that’s kinda why I’m trying to do a spring plot.

 

[yoderjac]

I primarily use these plots as fall kill plots, but the reason I’m trying to plant a spring plot is because honestly, the area around us has become severely over hunted, if I can do anything to get an edge on the next person it is worth it. Also, a lot of people around us have started clear cutting any woods they have, and hunters have become trigger happy, so a lot of deer have moved out of the area. If one of the food plots can entice a stray deer to come and stay in the area than its worth it. So that’s kinda why I’m trying to do a spring plot.

I don't think planting a summer plot for deer is your best approach. If folks are clear cutting , there will be lots of food for deer as the canopy opens up. I would use summer to improve your soil health and make your fall plot better. I would plan to plant buckwheat. It likes warm soil, so you can wait to plant it. It provides 60-90 days of deer food. It is very fast to germinate and will outcompete most weeds. Tillage burns organic matter, destroys soil tilth, and is not good for soil health. Buckwheat can be grown by simply scratching up the surface, killing weeds, broadcasting and cultipacking. Buckwheat is a nutrient scavenger that will make the nutrients it scavenged available to the next crop. It creates a good environment for a T&M fall crop. Deer use it but don't generally abuse it, so it works well in smaller plots. Planting small food plots for summer won't likely make much difference in deer use in the fall. I'd focus on making a better fall plant and use your summer crop to help with that.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Deerkiller308]

Thank you, that is what I will try. Do you think 65lbs/acre of buckwheat would be a solid stand?
And also, for when I plant the fall food plot, do you think 60lbs wheat/acre, 60lbs rye/acre, and 30lbs oats/acre would be good

 

[yoderjac]

Thank you, that is what I will try. Do you think 65lbs/acre of buckwheat would be a solid stand?
And also, for when I plant the fall food plot, do you think 60lbs wheat/acre, 60lbs rye/acre, and 30lbs oats/acre would be good

65 lbs is in the right ballpark, maybe slightly on the heavy side, but fine if it is not in a mix.

Your fall mix is a bit heavy as well and probably not what I would suggest given the struggles you describe. I would target 100 lbs/ac of Winter Rye and 15 lbs/ac of Crimson Clover for your fall plant. You can just surface broadcast it in the standing buckwheat, and run a cultipacker over the field. This will knock down the buckwheat forming a mulch over the seed. This will help hold in moisture and the soil contact with the buckwheat will cause it to break down quickly releasing the nutrients it scavenged.

My reasoning for that fall plant is this: Deer don't seem to have a huge preference for one cereal grain over another. Winter Rye has a lot of soil health benefits. Mixing it with other cereal grain is not a bad idea, but I would keep things simple to start. Winter Rye, depending on your soil type, will germinate better when surface broadcast than WW or oats. I like the idea of mixing a legume (Crimson Clover) with a cereal grain. The Crimson Clover will fix Nitrogen into the soil and as it dies, release that N for the cereal grain. Crimson Clover is an annual clover and in your area (and mine) it acts as a reseeding annual. So, next spring, your Winter Rye and Crimson Clover will bounce back. The WR will soon become unattractive in the spring, but the Crimson Clover will get good use. You then have two options. You can let the WR head out. Deer will use the grain heads some, but not a lot, or, when the WR gets a foot or so tall and begins to shade out the clover, Mow the field to about 8" high. The WR will die in the summer. You then have the option of keeping the CC for the fall or replanting for the next fall.

All of these crops are good deer crops, but not so attractive like soybeans or sunflowers that deer wipe them out before they get established in small plots.

Best of Luck,

Jack

 

[Deerkiller308]

That’s what I’ll try, thank you for your help.

 

[yoderjac]

Remember, timely rain can erase a lot of sins. If possible, always plant with rain in the forecast. If you have not planted buckwheat before, here is a little more information. When planting in the spring, soils need to be warm enough for seeds to germinate. Each kind of seed has a temperature range where it will germinate. This is not air temperature, it is soil temperature. You can buy a soil thermometer for very little and it has been an important tool for me. Soil temperatures are taken between 0800 and 0900 in the morning before the sun has had time to warm the field for the day. So, when you see germination temperatures for different crops, this is what they are referring to. Buckwheat will germinate at soil temperatures as low as 45 degrees, but the optimal soil temperature for buckwheat is 80 degrees. I find that if plant buckwheat with soil temperatures below about 65 degrees, it will germinate and grow, but the crop will be lethargic compared to planting it at soil temps above 65 degrees. One mistake new guys make with buckwheat is that they get anxious and plant it too early. I'm north of you in zone 7a in Virginia. For me, the month of June works well for planting buckwheat.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Deerkiller308]

Yeah, I’m gonna hold back a while before I plant the buckwheat because as of now, we still have the chance of snow and plenty of frosts.
As far as the clover, I have planted crimson clover and Antler kings Trophy Clover mix before but it hasn’t worked out. The clover tended to have stunted growth and became leggy. Now given, I planted these before a soil test. When I did do a soil test, the test came back with a ph of 4.8 and a low reading of potassium and phosphorus. It was a Whitetail institute soil test. Also, I cut out quite a bit of trees afterwards so I’m probably getting a good 4 or more hrs of sunlight in October when the leaves fall off the trees. Do you think the low nutrients could have contributed to the clover plots failure? I know shade had affected the clover but I believe I fixed that problem. Still though, 4-5 hours of sunlight is as much as I can possibly get.

 

[Deerkiller308]

I currently have all the fertilizer I need and I also have had lime in the ground for around 6 months. So I know the ph is around right and the fertilizer will not be wasted.

 

[yoderjac]

Your biggest issue was pH. Crimson does not require great fertility. Keep in mind that soil test recommendations are oriented to farmers. Farmers are focused on yield and they extract nutrients when they harvest. We are in a different situation with food plots. I started out using traditional farming techniques and did more harm to my soil with a 2-bottom plow than I did good. I've evolved over the years to use no-till and min-till methods. The only nutrients we extract is what deer eat, but deer defecate nutrients back. Plants grow in nature because of nutrient cycling. Traditional farming is high input, high yield, high output. I have also become much more weed tolerant. For a farmer, anything that grows in his field that he did not plant is a weed. Many weeds are better deer food than the crops we plant. Having said that, there are some weeds that are problematic and need to be addressed, but I no longer worry about most weeds in my plots. They don't reduce attraction and in some cases increase it.

In general, getting the pH amended is the first step. I only top-dress lime. I have heavy clay and lime and nutrients move slowly. I'm now at the point where I haven't used commercial fertilizer for 4 or 5 years with no negative impact. I'm planting crops that are complementary and don't have high fertility requirements. I like mixing legumes and grasses. As they die, it creates a balance of Carbon and Nitrogen, the key balance when composting. This helps increase Organic Matter in the soil over time which in tern helps nutrient cycling.

Having sufficient sunlight is important for any crop you plant. You might want to consider establishing a perennial clover plot as some perennial clovers are fairly shade tolerant. To do this, simply use a perennial clover instead of the crimson. The Winter Rye becomes the nurse crop for the clover. Unlike Crimson, you won't get much out of the perennial clover this fall. Each time the WR hits 12"-18", mow it back to 8". This is important to keep the WR alive to allow the perennial clover time to put down roots. By the following fall you should have a great stand of clover. I find Durana is a great clover choice in my area and yours. It is persistent and drought tolerant. Once established, mowing it once or twice a year is enough to maintain it. Even if it gets very weedy in the summer, mowing it right before the fall will advantage the clover and it will bounce back for the season.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Deerkiller308]

So you believe that the clover will perform better than previous years since the ph has been raised and there is more sunlight. I will admit, the very first plot I ever tried was a antler king trophy clover mix, the ph was very low, and there was near-to-no sunlight due to the canopy, and it still grew alright given the conditions. I will plant the buckwheat as you said this spring(killing it before it produces seeds), and then this fall I will plant a WR and crimson clover mix(I’d prefer to plant annual clover as it produces more in a shorter time and if the deer happen to not like, I can try something different in the future)

 

[yoderjac]

Yes, pH under 5 makes it difficult for most plants to uptake nutrients and little sunlight is a problem as well. I would not worry about killing the buckwheat before it goes to seed. Some folks with very fertile soils may have issues with a buckwheat volunteer crop smothering a fall plant. That has never been the case with my soil, and given your description, it won't be a problem for you. You will get some buckwheat volunteers if you let it go to seed, but these are an advantage. They germinate quickly and have a lot of energy. They are very attractive in the fall. They won't be thick enough to hurt your fall plant, and what deer don't nip off, will die at the first frost making room for the WR and clover.

 

[krekelly]

So you believe that the clover will perform better than previous years since the ph has been raised and there is more sunlight. I will admit, the very first plot I ever tried was a antler king trophy clover mix, the ph was very low, and there was near-to-no sunlight due to the canopy, and it still grew alright given the conditions. I will plant the buckwheat as you said this spring(killing it before it produces seeds), and then this fall I will plant a WR and crimson clover mix(I’d prefer to plant annual clover as it produces more in a shorter time and if the deer happen to not like, I can try something different in the future)

I’ll add in a few other suggestions.

You mentioned you got a soil test and added in lime awhile ago. Have you since had a soil test done? If not, you’re still likely going to be battle poor soil ph. Lime takes a long time (6-12 months) to positively impact the soil. Usually a lime

That said, there’s a great opportunity for a summer planting with an emphasis on soil building. Planting buckwheat is a great option that as stated will provide many benefits! To take it a step further, planting a blend with the specific intent of soil building will multiply the benefits.

Specifically, if you look at introducing a blend of a large variety of plants including buckwheat and then broadcast your fall blend into it you’ll find that the summer blend is a great opportunity to boost the health of your soil especially when using the summer blend as a cover crop.

I would also suggest a few other thoughts.

Why stop at a minimum-culture fall blend? When mixed appropriately, having a polyculture (many species) provides so many more benefits to the overall health of your habitat. Deer are selective browsers. They know what nutrients they need when they need them. You had mentioned you want to feed deer year round, but your only giving them an option of 3 plant species. There’s a great opportunity for you to increase their health by offering 12+ species at a time so they can browse on what they need.

Also, don’t overlook your timber as a major opportunity to hold, direct, and secure deer on your property. Many people often overlook this opportunity, putting a huge emphasis on food. But what about cover? Travel corridors? Bedding? Etc.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Deerkiller308]

I put in around 4,375lbs/acre of lime on October 2020, I was planning to do another soil test around October 2021. As of now it has been 6 months from the time I put on lime.

the reason I’m only doing three plant species is because I’m somewhat limited. What would you recommend as other plant species? Since I don’t have large amount of land to plant, planting things like peas have no benefit for me. They get wiped out long before they ever produce anything. Plus, plants like peas will not receive enough sunlight to grow properly.

Also, in the future, I will try some other species like clover as they are a lil bit more shade tolerant/graze tolerant.

 

[yoderjac]

I put in around 4,375lbs/acre of lime on October 2020, I was planning to do another soil test around October 2021. As of now it has been 6 months from the time I put on lime.

the reason I’m only doing three plant species is because I’m somewhat limited. What would you recommend as other plant species? Since I don’t have large amount of land to plant, planting things like peas have no benefit for me. They get wiped out long before they ever produce anything. Plus, plants like peas will not receive enough sunlight to grow properly.

Also, in the future, I will try some other species like clover as they are a lil bit more shade tolerant/graze tolerant.

You will be fine planting buckwheat in the spring, There are several reasons I suggested buckwheat rather than a mix. One is because you are just starting out and have had previous failures. Buckwheat is hard to screw up. It will germinate in my truck bed when a little dirt gets in. As long as the soil is warm enough and you get a little rain after planting, there is not much you can do. Also, buckwheat does not have high pH or fertility requirements. Lime 6 months ago with a couple more months until planting time should amend your soil plenty for Buckwheat. Next, soil building is best done when tillage is minimized or eliminated. Because buckwheat germinates and grows so quickly, it will outcompete most weeds. Looking toward fall, Buckwheat is a great crop to T&M into. As you gain experience, you will learn the right level of thatch that works for your situation, but a pure stand of buckwheat makes for the perfect T&M much because it decomposes so quickly.

I'm trying to balance good practices with keeping things simple to ensure you get a little success under your belt. Soil can be built through mixing or rotating or both. Since you want to plant annually, you will have lots of opportunities to try different mixes in future years. The best thing to do is to learn about your soil type. krekelly makes a good point about planting a polyculture. The problem is that most of the commercial mixes are not locally focused. So, you can end up paying for seed that does not produce in your soils and climate. Worse, some commercial mixes contain seed like ryegrass which can become invasive in some situations. I'm planting large acreage for QDM purposes, so mixing a larger variety of seeds myself is not a problem, but that may not be practical for folks planting a couple 1/4 acre plots.

What you really need to do is balance what is good for soil, what will grow well in your soils and climate and with your deer densities, and what achieves your attraction objective. I've given you a good starting point for this year, but as time goes on you may want to experiment with other crops in your mix. While my objectives are different, QDM as well as kill plot attraction, I'm probably not too far away being in central VA, so my climate and soils may be similar. So, I'll tell you what has been working for me lately.

I've been using a 50/50 mix of sunn hemp and buckwheat for summer. I've been experimenting with adding a third crop. I tried sunflowers, and last year I added wild game sorghum (milo). While the sorghum did well, it was not compatible with my fall plant. Sorghum spends the summer growing and produces seed heads that deer eat in the fall. I had to mow the field when planting my fall crop, so the sorghum never benefited the deer.

The fall mix that works well for me is Winter Rye, Purple Top Turnips, Groundhog Radish, and Crimson Clover. The Winter Rye provides the early season attraction as does the GHR tops. The GHR tubers provide mid season attraction as does the turnip tops. The PTT bulbs provide a very late season and post season food source. The GHR also provides "organic tillage" if planted early enough for large tubers. The Crimson Clover and Winter Rye bounce back in the spring. They keep my soil covered and the Crimson Clover feeds deer in the early spring until I'm ready to plant for summer.

I'm using this combination of mixing and rotation to attract, and feed deer while building soil health. Since I'm working on a larger scale, I'm buying 50 pound bags of seed and mixing them myself which is pretty cost efficient.

Thanks,

Jack