Drilling clover

[Ncwoodsman]

So I'm about to plant all my fall food plots and I'm planting a mix of oats and wheat and winter peas and crimson clover. I've got them on separate bags and the drill I will be using has two main seed boxes and a clover box, the two main boxes one will have the oats and wheat the other will have the peas, I am doing strictly no-till and drilling in to some dead grass and medium thatch I'm trying to decide if I should add the clover into the drill or just broadcast it on the ground before I drill. What do you guys think

 

[Bassattackr]

Always comes down to seed to soil contact. If you can get that with broadcasting and rolling, it would help. Just broadcasting clover on thatch or dead grass is not going to make for a very consistent stand IMO.

You may think about using the large box for peas, oats and wheat. And the small seed box for clover.. assuming you can keep it fairly shallow. OR adjust the depth down to about 1/4" and do a separate pass for the clover only..

 

[yoderjac]

If it were me, I would surface broadcast the WW/Oats/CC, and then drill the peas. They others surface broadcast pretty well when cultipacked. The drill will press them into the ground while drilling peas. Surface broadcasting is so quick, it won't take much more time.

 

[Iowa_Dave]

Caveat - I am still a greenhorn when it comes to using a grain drill, but I do have a few uses under my belt now. (I have a Truax Flex-2) So I would say...it would be fine to broadcast the clover ahead of running the drill over the ground. The action of the drill will "shake" and or press most/all clover seed down to the dirt and then you really aren't expecting quick growth from your freshly planted clover this fall anyway, right? I suspect, but do not know, that your clover will be just fine come next spring. But...having said that, I would think that using your small seed box for clover would also work fine and it would be one less pass.

FWIW, I did recently use my drill to plant peas, rye and oats. I put the larger seed (oats) in the large seed box and the rye in the fluffy seed box for one pass and that seemed to work well. I drilled the peas on a separate pass, out of the large seed box. I did that because I wasn't sure how well it would work to combine oats and peas in the same box AND I also wanted some areas to be just rye/oats and other areas to be heavy on peas...so it made sense to do the peas on their own trip.

 

[Wild Thing]

Use the drill for what it was intended for - One Pass Planting. Your drill should plant large seed and small seed just fine.

Large seed in the large seed box and small seed in the small seed box. No need to use the NWSG box for clovers. This was a 12 seed mix I planted for a cover crop last year:



Here is the recipe for what I planted:



This is what I planted into (I had sprayed with Glyphosate prior to planting)





This is what it looked like a few weeks later...



This is what it looked like in spring/early summer. The right side had been terminated and planted to sugar beets...



The clovers - Medium Red and Crimson are thriving just fine...



The Hairy Vetch soon began flowering...



The rye, of course, had no trouble reaching maturity...



By August 7th (U.P. of Michigan - latitude 43 N), the rye seed had matured and was viable...so I mowed it to renew the cover crop for another year (See following post for results)

 

[Wild Thing]

The clovers and vetch were doing just fine so by mowing this plot when the rye seed heads had ripened, I was able to just scatter the rye seed with the mower to freshen up the plot. I did nothing to this plot since I planted it in August of 2020, except mow it on August 7th, 2021. No fertilizing, no spraying, no planting of additional seed, no nothing, other than mowing it last month.





This is what the sugar beets looked like on the half of the cover crop which was planted last year. You can see the mowed portion of the plot on the left side.



As of yesterday - September 13, 2021, this is what the mowed side looks like...



Plenty of fresh rye which reseeded itself after mowing, plenty of new vetch and plenty of clovers...



This will keep my deer fed for the remainder of this year and into next spring when I will terminate the plot and rotate it into brassicas next year.



Of course, the clovers and vetch will continue to fix atmospheric Nitrogen in their root nodules which will feed N to my brassicas next year. The decaying thatch from what I mowed will also add nutrients to my soil. My soils are coming along great with this being my 6th year of 100% no-till planting and cover crops. I do not plan to add any synthetic fertilizers at all next year.



As I said - no need to make more than one pass when you plant with a no-till drill.

 

[TreeDaddy]

Wild Thing

How far in advance do you spray gly?

What rate do you spray/

thanks,

bill

 

[Wild Thing]

Wild Thing

How far in advance do you spray gly?

What rate do you spray/

thanks,

bill

Tree Daddy - In the past I have really had no rhyme or reason to timing my spraying. I have sprayed as much as a week or more prior to planting to as little as the morning before planting in the afternoon, and I have also planted and sprayed a day or two later. Based upon a recent You Tube video I recently saw where spraying Gly directly onto seed which caused little to no germination, I would be hesitant to spray after seeding in the future - at least for broadcasted seed. With the drill I don't believe it would make any difference.

I generally spray Glyphosate at 1 quart/acre over Roundup Ready crops, 1 1/2 Quarts/acre for general spraying to nuke everything and/or 2 quarts/acre if I have a lot of clovers (which I find are hard to kill with Glyphosate).

I use well water for my sprayer so I always add AMS to the water - about 1# per 10 gallons of solution (1 solo cupful), and I always add the AMS BEFORE adding the Gly.

 

[Nightvision]

If you have a no till drill with the small seed box why would you not use it to plant your clover?

 

[Iowa_Dave]

If you have a no till drill with the small seed box why would you not use it to plant your clover?

For me...in the year that I have my drill, I have not attempted clover, mainly because I already have those plots established. I have yet to plant via that small seed box...but I will next spring. I did plant EW and milo this past spring...but out of inexperience, etc, I used the large seed box. I am pretty sure that was a mistake on my part now and I will definitely use my small seed box for that task this coming year. I have a good amount of experience planting food plots...but not with a grain drill. :) This thread is helpful to me too. Thanks to those that are sharing their knowledge.

 

[Iowa_Dave]

Follow up question...I mentioned above that I recently planted oats out of my large seed box and rye in the fluffy seed box and then in a separate pass, peas out of the large seed box. Although I sacrificed some efficiency by making two passes...I also wanted to concentrate the peas in certain spots, which I of course was able to do via just drilling over those areas.

I now realize that I had added clover then I should have used the small seed box for that...but what if I wanted a true one pass operation AND was planting the whole mix (rye/oats/peas/clover)? Clover in the small seed box, that seems clear. Rye did seem to work fine out of the fluffy seed box, so I would probably do that again. But would I mix my pea and oat seed in the large seed box? If so, will the heavier, rounder seed(peas) run out first or will it stay mixed in the bins while planting?

Just curious...I won't plant those again until next year, but still trying to put the pieces together and get to a true no till place on my farm.

 

[swat1018]

Plant oats, rye, EW, milo all out of the large seed box. I have planted mixes with Rye, Oats, Peas, Radish all in the large seed box, then have put MRC or other clover and PTT in the small box. Had excellent success. When planting a mix you have to make compromises with planting depth, for example, but my plots have always been a success done this way. I quit planting peas and replace them with left over soybean seed, for some early season attraction. Can't justify the cost of peas in my area where the deer wipe them out at 1" tall.

 

[Wild Thing]

Follow up question...I mentioned above that I recently planted oats out of my large seed box and rye in the fluffy seed box and then in a separate pass, peas out of the large seed box. Although I sacrificed some efficiency by making two passes...I also wanted to concentrate the peas in certain spots, which I of course was able to do via just drilling over those areas.

I now realize that I had added clover then I should have used the small seed box for that...but what if I wanted a true one pass operation AND was planting the whole mix (rye/oats/peas/clover)? Clover in the small seed box, that seems clear. Rye did seem to work fine out of the fluffy seed box, so I would probably do that again. But would I mix my pea and oat seed in the large seed box? If so, will the heavier, rounder seed(peas) run out first or will it stay mixed in the bins while planting?

Just curious...I won't plant those again until next year, but still trying to put the pieces together and get to a true no till place on my farm.

The fluffy seed box is for planting native warm season grasses Dave - you dont need that box for anything else. I have every option there is on my drill EXCEPT the NWSG box because I dont ever plan to plant them and I can plant everything else in the other 2 boxes. Your rye and your peas should be planted from the large box.

If you looked at my recipe in post #5 above you will see that I planted soybeans along with rye and 4 other types of seed from my large box last year. Beans are about the same size as peas. This year I planted rye, oats, wheat, peas, radish and buckwheat all mixed together in the large box. I also planted a variety of 6 different seeds from my small box - all in one pass.

it really doesnt need to be complicated

 

[Wild Thing]

I should also mention that you can even plant tiny switchgrass seed from the small box. I have used the small box to plant switchgrass at 8 1/2#/acre.

This year I planted RR sugar beets from the large seed box at only 2#/acre - and I covered the entire acre evenly on 15” rows.

These drills aren’t as precise as high precision planters but they still plant pretty darned good for deer food.

 

[Iowa_Dave]

The fluffy seed box is for planting native warm season grasses Dave - you dont need that box for anything else. I have every option there is on my drill EXCEPT the NWSG box because I dont ever plan to plant them and I can plant everything else in the other 2 boxes. Your rye and your peas should be planted from the large box.

If you looked at my recipe in post #5 above you will see that I planted soybeans along with rye and 4 other types of seed from my large box last year. Beans are about the same size as peas. This year I planted rye, oats, wheat, peas, radish and buckwheat all mixed together in the large box. I also planted a variety of 6 different seeds from my small box - all in one pass.

it really doesnt need to be complicated

OK, thanks. I think I was probably just over thinking things. Here is what I now think led me down this path, FWIW...

I used the drill this spring to plant milo and EW and for some unknown reason I used the large seed box and even as I tried to throttle the seed rate down I ended up with way too heavy of planting rate for those crops. Because I was really just trying to create a "mess" for the pheasants and quail, I deliberately mixed the two seeds, milo and EW. But what appeared to happen is that the two somewhat different sized seeds separated in the seed box...I think. As the result was a weird mix of EW and milo stands that ended up much less mixed than I would have anticipated.

On one hand, it worked, as I have reasonably decent milo and EW now and for my purposes, I really don't care how mixed up they were, or not...but the seed rate was way too heavy if I really was trying to do it right. Why I didn't use the small seed box...I don't know/remember. Probably just unfamiliarity and/or ignorance on my part. :)

So that experience caused me to think that if I combined all of my fall blend (rye, oats, peas) in one box that I would end up with a wild outcome when I really wanted something conventional. Based on your input, and others, I will just mix them all together next year...much easier to remember and execute that way. :) Thank you! My only potential caveat to that is that by doing the peas separately as I did, I purposed to put them on heavy in a subset of the planted acres, as opposed to evenly distributed over all acres. You might say that there are more peas around places where there is a stand or blind in place. :)

As far as mixing those seeds...do you premix them outside the seed box(es) or just dump them in and then mix them around in the seed box(es)? I wish I had some more to plant yet this year to try this now. :) TIA

 

[Iowa_Dave]

Plant oats, rye, EW, milo all out of the large seed box. I have planted mixes with Rye, Oats, Peas, Radish all in the large seed box, then have put MRC or other clover and PTT in the small box. Had excellent success. When planting a mix you have to make compromises with planting depth, for example, but my plots have always been a success done this way. I quit planting peas and replace them with left over soybean seed, for some early season attraction. Can't justify the cost of peas in my area where the deer wipe them out at 1" tall.

Ah, just saw this after replying to a different post. I believe I did plant milo and EW out of my large seed box this spring, but ended up with a way too heavy seeding rate. Did I just not "dial it down" far enough for that smaller, relative to oats/rye/peas, rounder seed or would it be better to use the small seed box for milo and EW?

I think if I am correctly gathering all of the good advice here...I should stay in the large seed box and further restrict the seed rate when drilling milo/EW. True/false? TIA to all of the helpful input. I have been messing around with food plots now for almost 20 years, but my use of a grain drill is all new within the last year...so I am a noob in that way.

 

[TreeDaddy]

I am in same boat as Dave

I plan to drill for my first time in 2 weeks

May put Wild Thing and Swat on speed dial

bill

 

[Wild Thing]

Ah, just saw this after replying to a different post. I believe I did plant milo and EW out of my large seed box this spring, but ended up with a way too heavy seeding rate. Did I just not "dial it down" far enough for that smaller, relative to oats/rye/peas, rounder seed or would it be better to use the small seed box for milo and EW?

I think if I am correctly gathering all of the good advice here...I should stay in the large seed box and further restrict the seed rate when drilling milo/EW. True/false? TIA to all of the helpful input. I have been messing around with food plots now for almost 20 years, but my use of a grain drill is all new within the last year...so I am a noob in that way.

I don’t have access to my computer today so can not refer to my notes but I am almost certain that I planted sorghum, milo and similar seeds out of my large seed box. Yes, there are 3 ways to dial down the seeding rate. I have planted stand-alone seeds as small as forage radish from the large box.

Of course, if you go through the calibration procedure, you know exactly what your seeding rate will be prior to planting.

Agree Dave - there is definitely a bit of a learning curve when planting with a no-till drill - even for experienced food plotters. Thankfully, via forums such as this one, we can usually find someone who has been there and done that before who can give us some direction.

 

[Wild Thing]

As far as mixing those seeds...do you premix them outside the seed box(es) or just dump them in and then mix them around in the seed box(es)? I wish I had some more to plant yet this year to try this now. :) TIA

Yes, I premix my seed before pouring it into the drill. Small seed like clovers and brassicas can be easily mixed in a 5 gallon pail. For large seed I use a large plastic tub. About the only thing I mix in the seed box is inoculant to soybeans.