CRP field buffers...CP1 or 2?

[Dukslayr]

I have two CRP contracts on my farm. One expires in September of 2021. This contract encompasses most of the highest quality farm ground. Based on the rates they’re offering for general signup these days I’ve decided to convert 1/2-2/3 back into AG production. The field borders and other more erodible portions I plan to offer back up for CRP. It sounds like my options will be CP1 (generally cool season) or CP2 (generally warm season). The ground I’m planning to re-enroll is currently in CP1 and CP42.
I would prefer to enroll into to CP2 for a couple reasons: 1) There’s a cost share for CP2 (but wouldn’t be for CP1) and 2) I think NWSG will add some variety to bedding cover on my farm that currently doesn’t have any substantial NWSG plantings.
My concern and biggest question is tracking deer through stands of NWSG. Do any of you have experience tracking deer through NWSG and how difficult do you find it to be? Right now the cover is only 2-4’ high and any deer shot in one of my fields is visible until it hit a tree line, which helps serve as a visual marker of where the deer went into the woods. If I have 100-150’ NWSG borders around most of my AG fields I’m concerned about losing visual reference on where the deer went and potential challenges tracking through the NWSG buffers. Have any of you dealt with this before and can you offer an opinions or suggestions based on your experience tracking deer through NWSG? Thank you.

 

[BenAllgood]

Don't want to derail the thread, but why are you getting away from the CP42?

 

[bwoods11]

Interesting concern you have. Losing a deer in a big CRP field is a real possibility. Blood trails are not bad depending on the time of year. I think the cover offsets the negative of tracking, but that is just my perspective. Good luck, also look into continuous CRP--more cost share and higher rates per acre.

 

[j-bird]

So I have some smaller field buffers....ranging from 30' to 120' wide. Mine mostly have a mix of native weeds and switchgrass in them...so the grass itself gets to about 5 feet tall or so during hunting season. The few times I have had to track deer thru it, or into it...you simply have to take your time. If your used to tracking deer thru the woods your used to looking at the ground in many cases and you see the deer from 50/100 yards away.. In the grass your looking higher. Your looking from waist height and down. Your looking from where the grass brushed up against the deer or where a gush shot out as the deer bounded thru. You just have to slow down... You still have to try to watch where they enter and if they leave as well. You won't see the white belly or the glint of dew off the antler for 50 or 100 yards away...not when you can't see the ground 3 feet from you. You have to find them! I have never lost one this way, but it will test your patience. A poor hit would make it very difficult to find.

I had a nice buck go down in a small area 1/2 the size of a football field. I saw him go bounding in and I never saw him leave....so I knew he was in there. I went looking for him the evening I shot him and found blood but not great amounts (shot with 30-30)...but never found the deer after looking for an hour. I went back the next morning and looked for another hour and then found him...after I almost tripped over it.

I agree in that the improvement in cover would offset my concerns....

 

[Dukslayr]

Don't want to derail the thread, but why are you getting away from the CP42?

It may not be an option for me anymore. I’m waiting on the specific enrollment guide to select from. I’m certainly open to CP42 but they haven’t quoted it (or those rates) as option for this year. Our FSA is closed and they’re doing everything virtually so it’s been a challenge.

 

[Dukslayr]

Interesting concern you have. Losing a deer in a big CRP field is a real possibility. Blood trails are not bad depending on the time of year. I think the cover offsets the negative of tracking, but that is just my perspective. Good luck, also look into continuous CRP--more cost share and higher rates per acre.

I’m going to ask about continuous, but I don’t know much about it. As I understand it continuous is for waterways and buffers? Do you have experience with continuous?

 

[Native Hunter]

I have lots of experience tracking deer through tall NWSGs. The key is to use enough gun and the right bullet. Both my son and I now hunt with 300 Mags using quick to expand 180 grain bullets. You will blow a big hole out the other side that leaves a heck of a blood trail. If you don't do this, you could be in for a lot of grief.

 

[Dukslayr]

So I have some smaller field buffers....ranging from 30' to 120' wide. Mine mostly have a mix of native weeds and switchgrass in them...so the grass itself gets to about 5 feet tall or so during hunting season. The few times I have had to track deer thru it, or into it...you simply have to take your time. If your used to tracking deer thru the woods your used to looking at the ground in many cases and you see the deer from 50/100 yards away.. In the grass your looking higher. Your looking from waist height and down. Your looking from where the grass brushed up against the deer or where a gush shot out as the deer bounded thru. You just have to slow down... You still have to try to watch where they enter and if they leave as well. You won't see the white belly or the glint of dew off the antler for 50 or 100 yards away...not when you can't see the ground 3 feet from you. You have to find them! I have never lost one this way, but it will test your patience. A poor hit would make it very difficult to find.

I had a nice buck go down in a small area 1/2 the size of a football field. I saw him go bounding in and I never saw him leave....so I knew he was in there. I went looking for him the evening I shot him and found blood but not great amounts (shot with 30-30)...but never found the deer after looking for an hour. I went back the next morning and looked for another hour and then found him...after I almost tripped over it.

I agree in that the improvement in cover would offset my concerns....

We killed 5 deer in the primary field I’m concerned about. All of them would have run through the NWSG buffers or waterways for 40-150 yards and all were recovered. The difficulty in tracking is a real concern though. I’ve got a lot of other good bedding and security cover but just no NWSG (which I do think would be a value add).

 

[Dukslayr]

I have lots of experience tracking deer through tall NWSGs. The key is to use enough gun and the right bullet. Both my son and I now hunt with 300 Mags using quick to expand 180 grain bullets. You will blow a big hole out the other side that leaves a heck of a blood trail. If you don't do this, you could be in for a lot of grief.

That’s my concern. 3 of the 5 deer killed in this area were with a bow. Bow hunting is 70% of what we do. A perfect hit with double lung pass through should be okay, but that’s not always reality.

 

[Native Hunter]

That’s my concern. 3 of the 5 deer killed in this area were with a bow. Bow hunting is 70% of what we do. A perfect hit with double lung pass through should be okay, but that’s not always reality.

I agree with what you just said. I can see a less than perfect bow hit being a nightmare in a big NWSG field. However, I love tall NWSGs. They have served me well for trophy deer.

 

[Native Hunter]

This year I killed a 186 crossing a shooting lane in a NWSG field. I blew ribs pieces and hide out 39 yards past where the deer was standing and made a near perfect double lung shot. That deer still was able to go 90 yards before going down. I don't see how he did that. However, the blood trail was really great and I had no trouble finding him.

 

[Dukslayr]

This year I killed a 186 crossing a shooting lane in a NWSG field. I blew ribs pieces and hide out 39 yards past where the deer was standing and made a near perfect double lung shot. That deer still was able to go 90 yards before going down. I don't see how he did that. However, the blood trail was really great and I had no trouble finding him.

I’ve got another field coming out next year that we hunt near but not on. I’m going to do the whole 15 acre piece in NWSG. I like it too I just don’t want to be enlisting a dog to find my deer on an annual basis. Congrats on your kill...that’s a monster!

 

[DPx2]

Is there a specific enrollment guide available to select from? Serious question.

I have 15a expiring this year and would like to put it back into crp. No one really wants to farm 15 oddly shaped acres. It's currently in CP33 and is 3-5' tall. It's a bear to try and track blood in.

 

[buckdeer1]

I have cp33 strips and some bigger CRP fields in area.The strip around fields are no problem as there are trails and blood shows good on light grass bigger fields can get tougher.They wouldn't let me re up my CP33 strips when they expired.Seemed pretty stupid I could take them out and farm for a couple years then they would pay to re establish them.I am strip discing some of mine this year to generate weed growth.I don't know why but if you have a weed patch in a crp field thats where the deer will lay alot of times.One thing I heard to get different growth of weeds or to provide structure without breaking rules was drag a old tree top out in grass.If you are short on cover and can burn then it is good quick cover especially if you frost seed

 

[DPx2]

They won't let you re-up CP33 unless it's surrounded by crop ground - they won't let me re-up my cp-33 for that reason as well.

 

[Dukslayr]

Is there a specific enrollment guide available to select from? Serious question.

I have 15a expiring this year and would like to put it back into crp. No one really wants to farm 15 oddly shaped acres. It's currently in CP33 and is 3-5' tall. It's a bear to try and track blood in.

In my county in Missouri the FSA sends an aerial photo of your expiring fields and markings of problems that need to be addressed. You have inform them ASAP if you intend to offer the land for re enrollment. Open enrollment is January 4th to February 12th. I would contact your FSA office ASAP to get the process started...it’s a pretty narrow window.

 

[DPx2]

In my county in Missouri the FSA sends an aerial photo of your expiring fields and markings of problems that need to be addressed. You have inform them ASAP if you intend to offer the land for re enrollment. Open enrollment is January 4th to February 12th. I would contact your FSA office ASAP to get the process started...it’s a pretty narrow window.

Yeah, I know the enrollment dates, but my question was "Is there a specific enrollment guide available to select from?" You said you were waiting for one: " I’m waiting on the specific enrollment guide to select from." I've never heard of or seen this guide. What is in it? Is it specific to general signups? Who provides it? Have a link to a copy of one?

 

[buckdeer1]

They never mentioned having to surround them,they are like it was when enrolled from 50ft to 120ft wide,they just told me I wasn't eligible.I had another issue when I was going to re enroll 13 acres of wetland,first I had too much johnson grass and when I took pictures and filed an appeal they agreed there wasn't but a couple small patches of JG.Less than 1/4 acre in whole project.Then they came out with the warning that if the switch that was already established choked out the new forbs I was going to be required to plant at 700.00 for 2 acres in 3 years when they did their inspection I would have to replant them at my cost every 3 years.That was more than I make off it and really didn't provide a benefit.Funny part was the coop was like what are they crazy saying I was the only person they worked with that maintained their CRP.I paid 114.00 penalty for 5 days in the program because I backed out of.The reason I mention all this is that when I signed up I was with one county and since my property is on county line and my farmer has ground in other county we transfered to that county.They aren't as proactive.Just make sure you are going to break even and make sure they are doing something that makes sense.Another project was a riparian buffer with 500 oaks and then 3 shrub plots and then a 25 ft strip of Big blue around the edge.Big blue spread over next 2 years and they sent me letter that I was due to burn and I said really and you think the shrubs and trees will survive,"what trees and shrubs"Back off the switch to 5 lbs per acre and you can throw in a few other things if you decide not to use gov money.

 

[Dukslayr]

Yeah, I know the enrollment dates, but my question was "Is there a specific enrollment guide available to select from?" You said you were waiting for one: " I’m waiting on the specific enrollment guide to select from." I've never heard of or seen this guide. What is in it? Is it specific to general signups? Who provides it? Have a link to a copy of one?

Maybe enrollment guide was a poor choice of words. See the attached picture. This was their response back to me when I informed them that my intent was to offer some of my land back for re enrollment.

 

[DPx2]

Maybe enrollment guide was a poor choice of words. See the attached picture. This was their response back to me when I informed them that my intent was to offer some of my land back for re enrollment. View attachment 33192

Hey, no problem - I appreciate the response. I wish there was a guide as opposed to everyone having to work with each individual fsa office to understand the programs available, the cost share % for each program, the maximum payment for each program, etc, etc.