Your (un)controlled burn story?

[Iowa_Dave]

The last "controlled fire" I was involved in didn't go quite as I had hoped. I am retired from the Sheriff's Office after a 40 year career. One afternoon, many years ago, when I was a new "young deputy", I responded to the scene of a grass fire and arrived prior to the Fire Department. Upon my arrival a rural homeowner, using a broom, was frantically attempting to stamp out a grass fire he had started in an attempt burn off a grass area adjacent to his lawn. He was frantic as he had lost control and he was attempting to save a line of 15 to 20 nice spruce trees along his driveway. I guess he was proud of these trees as he had planted them 15 years earlier and they had become a beautiful row trees.

Well, when I arrived, I immediately allayed his fears by assuring him that I had "been at many grass fires and that the fire won't hurt anything that is "green". He was immediately relieved and stood back with me awaiting the fire department. Much to my surprise, and chagrin, as the fire reached the line of spruce, and the pitch contained within, they exploded one by one each with a big "wooof" as the next one ignited right down the line. I thought to myself that they went up as if they had been sprayed with gasoline. Wow!... Wow!... Wow!... Wow!...............

I guess I wasn't quite as smart as I thought I was at the time. You can only imagine how quickly I excused myself from the scene and went back in service looking for the next citizen I could "serve and protect".

Uhhhh...never mind. That is a funny story...well except for the guy with the spruce trees. I have burned under and essentially "through" cedars before and for the most part, they won't catch on fire. Now if there are low to the ground branches and some grass growing up into the branches, then they will. But mainly they do not, unless surrounded by grass in my experience.

But I wonder what it was about the spruce trees that you saw that led to them catching. Were the flames up into the branches, did the needles below catch, etc? I don't have any spruce on my farm, so I am not familiar with what would have led to them catching.

 

[ksgobbler]

Uhhhh...never mind. That is a funny story...well except for the guy with the spruce trees. I have burned under and essentially "through" cedars before and for the most part, they won't catch on fire. Now if there are low to the ground branches and some grass growing up into the branches, then they will. But mainly they do not, unless surrounded by grass in my experience.

But I wonder what it was about the spruce trees that you saw that led to them catching. Were the flames up into the branches, did the needles below catch, etc? I don't have any spruce on my farm, so I am not familiar with what would have led to them catching.

Low humidity and a little wind and cedars will explode. Throw in some drought and sit back and watch the show.

 

[Iowa_Dave]

Low humidity and a little wind and cedars will explode. Throw in some drought and sit back and watch the show.

How low are the branches then to the ground? I have run fire underneath cedars several times with no issues, other than what I already mentioned about if there is grass growing up into the branches. Then it is game on, yes.

But the ones I am thinking of have no green branches within say 3' of the soil surface. So the needles burn, but it is a low height, low intensity fire and I can't recall ever catching the trees on fire as a result. Just curious.

 

[MRBB]

well don't know if this was said or not, but I have done a lot of controlled burns on many properties here in the north east
when planning one, I do as much prep to make things goes as smoothly as possible

I tru to burn things at near end of winter or warm ups in winter(as last many yrs snow hasn;t been happening much)

BUT, I use a snow plow and clear sites of snow
and leave a buffer of snow about squares I clear
come spring time, they dry fast and the rest of the area will still have snow down, to save me from worries of fires in the near by woods and such

NEVER had a spark catch a tree to date, but gather it is possible

I also, like to have equipment to put out a fire , I always have a 50 or larger gallon sprayer with a gun on it, and a tractor near by with a bucket and or disc
over the yrs have used then to help stop out something that carried, but that is rather rare I have to admit, I do my best to really watch weather and pick days to do things
having snow on the ground, IMO is the best time of yr to burn brush piles
Heck I do a LOT of work all winter long, cutting down dead tree's and stacking them in piles in the woods, and come back following winter with snow down and burn

amazing how a BIG pile of dead tree's will light up in the dead of winter and be gone come spring time! and bets of all again, almost zero risk to fire spreading,
just be careful when stacking things, so, when they get going they don't over heat tree's near by or have any that will catch due to branches or leaning tree's over burn pile!


when doing burns in fields in spring, NO snow yrs
I disc really small squares of dirt buffers, and then burn the insides
I ma them smaller on edges and burn one at a time , I use a propane torch and light edges all around squares, so they burn from edge to center

once I get all the field edges done, I then work out into the field, paying attention to any winds

some times I disc way more than needed, but I find it way safer than doing larger sections,a s heat and fire can get out of hand REAL fast if you do too much at a time, or winds pick up, or change mid burn

the more help you can have on hand the better too

but am guilty of doing many alone!
again, working alone, I go smaller on sections at a time I will light up!

 

[Da U.P. 'eh]

Iowa_Dave,

I believe it is the pitch, or resin, contained in the spruce needles that caused them to rapidly ignite as if soaked in gasoline.

That's my thought anyway but, as my story illustrates, I'm not all that bright. Oh well!

 

[Iowa_Dave]

Iowa_Dave,

I believe it is the pitch, or resin, contained in the spruce needles that caused them to rapidly ignite as if soaked in gasoline.

That's my thought anyway but, as my story illustrates, I'm not all that bright. Oh well!

I suspect that you are right...if so, that would explain why I have burned through(under) cedars before and not had a problem. Little needle build up and low flame height that didn't reach any branches, etc. I have no spruce at my farm, but have some at my house and you are right...those branches will catch easily and burn famously...even when all green.

 

[ksgobbler]

How low are the branches then to the ground? I have run fire underneath cedars several times with no issues, other than what I already mentioned about if there is grass growing up into the branches. Then it is game on, yes.

But the ones I am thinking of have no green branches within say 3' of the soil surface. So the needles burn, but it is a low height, low intensity fire and I can't recall ever catching the trees on fire as a result. Just curious.

I lost a telephone pole to what was a low intensity fire. It climbed and torched one, got another and it snowballed. Heck right now a pasture littered with small cedars down the road was burned. We are so wet they got a little warm but they will all make it.
2017 we were dry. Burn rekindled for some folks. It was a red flag day with humidity in the low teens, 80 degrees, and a rocking south wind. My brother was defending a house and the cedars in the yard were torching. Energy release component (erc) was off the charts.

They are asking people in fire prone areas here to trim them 6 ft high to reduce the chance as ladder fuels.

 

[yoderjac]

 

[buckdeer1]

We had to go to another district to help saturday and it was started when what appeared was 2 deer ran into a downed power line out in pasture and ignited.I will get some pics

 

[IkemanTx]

Well, after reading through this thread I SURE AM glad the local volunteer fire department will show up to help out for a couple hundred buck donation!!!

Things I have learned...

1) Only burn on perfect weather.

2) make breaks twice as big as I expected.

3) clean-up is just as important as the rest of the burn conditions.

I’ve burned many a piles, but my first prescribed fire should be in the next year and a half. It’s a little daunting.


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[TreeDaddy]

Well, after reading through this thread I SURE AM glad the local volunteer fire department will show up to help out for a couple hundred buck donation!!!

Things I have learned...

1) Only burn on perfect weather.

2) make breaks twice as big as I expected.

3) clean-up is just as important as the rest of the burn conditions.

I’ve burned many a piles, but my first prescribed fire should be in the next year and a half. It’s a little daunting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sounds like money well spent!!

bill

 

[IkemanTx]

Well, after reading through this thread I SURE AM glad the local volunteer fire department will show up to help out for a couple hundred buck donation!!!

Things I have learned...

1) Only burn on perfect weather.

2) make breaks twice as big as I expected.

3) clean-up is just as important as the rest of the burn conditions.

I’ve burned many a piles, but my first prescribed fire should be in the next year and a half. It’s a little daunting.


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Sounds like money well spent!!

bill

Yep!
They won’t actively do any prep work, but they will typically back spray the drip torch line and react to any jumps.

My plan is 3 shredders wide of mowing minimum, and a 4 foot rotary tilled strip dead center in it for breaks. 3 backpack blowers, 2-30gal sprayers on tractors, and a couple 4gal backpack sprayers. All breaks will be open pasture, so little chance of snags. 2 drip torches starting on the downwind side, then flanking lines, then a head fire after the backing fire and flanks establishes a good black break.

There will be a couple hundred dried down cedars in the middle of the 7 acres, so I will tend to those over a couple days and/or put them out if winds are predicted to get high.

Tell me how I’m planning it wrong!!!! I need all the critique I can get!


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[Iowa_Dave]

Ikeman TX - I think your plan sounds pretty legit. One minor thing I would suggest changing is to put your tilled fire break component right next to where you want the fire to start/stop, not in the center of the fire break. In other words, position your bare dirt, the best fire break of all, right next to where you want the fire to stop/start. Treat the additional, mowed section as a safety valve of sorts. You could also "wet line" the mowed section just prior to ignition for even more protection.

Also, if your fire is a ways out in the future, you can mow in the fall and then time your burn the following spring after green up has begun. The short, mowed fire break area will green up first and provide even more protection.

 

[ksgobbler]

Dont know how dry you are but those cedar piles will throw embers a long way

 

[Iowa_Dave]

Dont know how dry you are but those cedar piles will throw embers a long way

Very true and a very good point. Also, obviously the wind speed will influence how far an ember may travel...but so will the relative location of the brushpile on whatever slope may be present. Depending on where the pile is, upslope, downslope, crest, etc, and the interplay of the wind speed and direction, etc, there are many variables as to how far a dangerous ember could fly on you and get behind your line. An ember from a brushpile could go A LONG ways towards where you don't want it to go.

If feasible, I would consider tilling around your brushpiles to keep the fire from getting to them and then complete your burn, creating plenty of "black" and then go back and burn off your brushpiles as a separate step. In other words, if possible, decouple your field burn(s) and your brushpile(s) burn to retain maximum control.

 

[ksgobbler]

Last year I kept my piles from going up when I burned pasture. I waited till later in the spring when every property around was black then burned them. You can do the same thing waiting on it to green up.

 

[buckdeer1]

In several counties in Kansas we aren't allowed to burn brush piles in april at all.It is all trying to please the northern metro areas towards KC.They say they are lowering smoke levels.Only thing is alot of the flint hills will be burned by then and if there happens to be a north wind during that time that will make a huge difference,way more than 7 counties burning brush piles

 

[yoderjac]

Yep!
They won’t actively do any prep work, but they will typically back spray the drip torch line and react to any jumps.

My plan is 3 shredders wide of mowing minimum, and a 4 foot rotary tilled strip dead center in it for breaks. 3 backpack blowers, 2-30gal sprayers on tractors, and a couple 4gal backpack sprayers. All breaks will be open pasture, so little chance of snags. 2 drip torches starting on the downwind side, then flanking lines, then a head fire after the backing fire and flanks establishes a good black break.

There will be a couple hundred dried down cedars in the middle of the 7 acres, so I will tend to those over a couple days and/or put them out if winds are predicted to get high.

Tell me how I’m planning it wrong!!!! I need all the critique I can get!


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What direction/speed winds and humidity levels are you looking for? What is in the burn area, NWSG? Zooming out from the pic, where will the smoke go? Any highways or retirement homes or anything else for which smoke could be problematic? What is you plan if it jumps the break? Dozer on site?..... Second line of defense?

Can't tell you what you are dong wrong as there are lots of unknown variables, but I can give you the above things to think about if you have not?

Thanks,

Jack