Snake-bit with 3P-500 seed output

[Foggy47]

I'm snake bit. I had a few issues early on with my (new to me) used Great Plains Drill....but I thought I found the problems (seed lever was not installed correctly and I was turning the calibration handle the wrong way, etc.). Never had these kinda problems calibrating my Tar River Saya drill.....and I got to the desired rate(s) quite quickly. Not so on this drill. This should not be rocket science......and I wonder how I could be so far off?......repeatably.

Today I spent a good part of the day weighing and bagging the seeds I want to drill (and broadcast within the next week). In my big seed box I plan to put out 112 lbs of winter rye and 5 lbs of radish......thus totaling 117 lbs. In the small seed box I have a mix of 4# Med Red clover, 1 # Alice White Clover, 4# Yellow Sweet Clover, 4# Chicory.....for a total of 13# in the small box.

I calibrated the small seed box first. And from the charts in the manual set the seed handle on the small box to 65 which should have put out 13 lbs or there about. But I was putting out 42 lbs / acre. WHOA. Recalibrated two more times and got the rate at 13.5 # with the handle set on 22. Could not understand the discrepancy.....but went with it.

Then calibrated the large box and had to reduce the handle setting again by 1/2 of where I started. Strange .....but went out to try it on one acre. Watched the depth setting and all seemed good in that department....could see seed being delivered between the coulters (used a small flashlight) and kept an eye on the drive wheel......and never saw it not moving. All seemed to operate correctly.

Got done with that acre.....and had 80% + of the seed remaining in the small box (weighted it out) and perhaps 25% of the seed in the big box remaining. I did not have time to empty and take an absolute wieght on the big box.....but I think my estimate is fairly close.

It appears the initial output using the 65 setting on the handle may have put out the right rate after all.......but it sure did not calibrate that way.....not even close.

Re-did my calibration math tonight.....and had a look at my worksheets again. I cannot find where I am going wrong. I'm stymied. Very frustrated with this product right now.

The only thing I can think of is to get someone else to drive my tractor and for me to walk along and watch the drill operation. (drive chains and seed cups, drive wheel etc.). Any ideas to get me in the right direction??

Here is my worksheet on the small seed box. (The year should read 8-30-23 - my bad.)

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I'm not all that familiar with the process/product but the first thing that comes to mind - when you're turning the crank handle to calibrate, is it connected to a sprocket or geared such that you're getting a different # of drive wheel rotations than crank handle rotations and thus throwing your calcs off?

 

[Foggy47]

I'm not all that familiar with the process/product but the first thing that comes to mind - when you're turning the crank handle to calibrate, is it connected to a sprocket or geared such that you're getting a different # of drive wheel rotations than crank handle rotations and thus throwing your calcs off?

Been thinking on this allot. Wonder if a loose set screw on one of the drive sprockets or a pin missing. Also need to check the drive wheel contact with the ground and possible slippage of that drive tire. Not sure on any of this. I thought I would leave these issues behind with the Great Plains product.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Been thinking on this allot. Wonder if a loose set screw on one of the drive sprockets or a pin missing. Also need to check the drive wheel contact with the ground and possible slippage of that drive tire. Not sure on any of this. I thought I would leave these issues behind with the Great Plains product.

If I understand correctly, depending on what drive type you are on, the number of cranks per acre (as it correlates to your drive wheel) should change. Does your calculation take into account what drive type you are using when calibrating?

For reference (and I know it’s a completely different drill) but the guy in this vid changes drive type for his calibration around 5 minutes.

 

[Foggy47]

^. Hmmmm. Gotta watch this. THANKS gonna check it out!

Edit: Yep.....doing this.....using the manual. Lots of good info here tho. Some may apply....some not to my model. All useful.

 

[khizzle]

This is my first year, but I have felt decent success and accuracy so far. I am attaching my excel file I have used, maybe you can run your calculations against mine? I wasn't sure I could run your numbers in my sheet. I do 98.25 turns. At first I did samples from 3 cups but they were so close I started cheating and only doing one cup, but the sheet is built for 3 samples so I just copy one reading to cup 2 and 3. If you have any questions just let me know.

I have the 3p500 with 7 rows.

3p500 Calibration

 

[Foggy47]

This is my first year, but I have felt decent success and accuracy so far. I am attaching my excel file I have used, maybe you can run your calculations against mine? I wasn't sure I could run your numbers in my sheet. I do 98.25 turns. At first I did samples from 3 cups but they were so close I started cheating and only doing one cup, but the sheet is built for 3 samples so I just copy one reading to cup 2 and 3. If you have any questions just let me know.

I have the 3p500 with 7 rows.

3p500 Calibration

I'll take a look at what you got here Khizzle. I do my thing a bit unorthodox. What I do is to collect seed from every drop tube over a calculated 100 foot length by catching seed in a pan placed under the disk openers. So I am basically 54" x 1200" and divide that number by 144 to get the area seeded. Then use a multiplier to get the acreage. I sprained my hand somehow....so I cannot play golf today. So I am going to spend the afternoon looking things over and try to arrive at a solution. May try other means to calibrate.......but I am suspecting some drive line issue is the culprit. Thanks for the response(S). Gives me something to look for.

 

[Foggy47]

Well.....I spent some time reviewing my set up with the drill and confirmed that mechanically every thing was good and my drive line was correct. With that in mind.....I decided to put "my short-cut method" aside and use the book to get up to speed. Viola....worked like a charm. Both my large box and the small box calibrated about 25% below the target rates on the first try and right on the target on the second try. I spun that crank 98 times and used the math according to the book (except I weigh the small seedbox in grams and convert to pounds later because the value is too small using pounds IMO.).

Anyway......I think some kinda bug in my math.....and I will spend a bit of time to figure out why I am pushing a mistake around. If you are using my worksheets on a LP or GP drill....I would suggest you disregard those methods. Sorry if this caused anyone some confusion........but more than likely nobody listens to me anyway.....lol.

I'm relieved to finally get passed this rate issue(s) I have had with this drill. Thanks for listening.

 

[356]

Glad you got this figured out in time for Deertopia to receive a fall planting.

 

[khizzle]

Glad it worked out! At work we can use really odd measurements so I have just got used to putting things in excel and not thinking about how small or large the value is. Sometimes a couple cents per pound turn into hundreds of thousands of dollars.

 

[Foggy47]

Glad it worked out! At work we can use really odd measurements so I have just got used to putting things in excel and not thinking about how small or large the value is. Sometimes a couple cents per pound turn into hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Like you.....I used lots of math to arrive at prices on aluminum extrusion and sheet products in time gone by. But....we normally did all our math the "hard way" with calculated values and factors to determine prices. Later some of the calculators had programs with multipliers to do the math from our values....but we often had our own methods to get to a bottom line. Sometimes we would factor 1.5 mills of paint into the price of aluminum sheet.....and sometimes not.....lol. I'm pretty old school.....and never really got into spread sheets in those times.

Later in my business.....I hired some computer savvy folks that could take my hand calculated spread sheets and digitize my work. They were amazed at some of my worksheets which were as many as 6 or 8 pieces of paper taped to one another to form my calculations. lol. I am a dinosaur. I wish I was more computer proficient. Alas.

 

[Brokenbear]

Foggy hang in there ..the equipment is good and the manual is good with their calibration process and explanation of the process

Last week was my first time planting with my new to me used 3P606NT and I had pure luck working with me ... using their calibration process I came with in 10% of target weight on the small box first set up (with 5 seed legume n brassicas mix) and honestly ..I tweaked it a notch and a half and called it good enough and planted

On the big box with oats n radish ..drive #1 and gates at #1 I was within 10% target weight and here again tweaked it a notch and planted ..

I stayed with ounces as the book calls for (maybe to lessen the math work ?) and had my scales set to ounces

I too measured before hand each seed variety..bagging it with ID and weight and then mixed at the time I was filling the hoppers

I rubber banded zip lock bags on my 3 big and 3 small drops and calibrated both with my 91.3 (my machine a 606 not a 500 so turn # differs) turns of the crank

My planting of 9 days ago is up and I am beyond pleased with how it is looking for a first time effort with a totally new to me machine

Just be patient as you have great equipment and you are going to be fine with it ..you're too sharp of a cookie to let a few speed bumps slow you down!

Bear

 

[Skye King]

I too spent a whole day turning the crank the wrong way and pulling my hair out because the calculations never jived. I built a spreadsheet to help with the calibration calculations and it has made all the math much easier. I built another spreadsheet to keep track of my planting. It makes record keeping much easier and I don't have a bunch of paper to keep up with. Also, i can just take a look at the spreadsheet to see what settings I used for a particular seed type.

This from the same guy who planted a whole field without engaging the drive wheel.

 

[swat1018]

I too spent a whole day turning the crank the wrong way and pulling my hair out because the calculations never jived. I built a spreadsheet to help with the calibration calculations and it has made all the math much easier. I built another spreadsheet to keep track of my planting. It makes record keeping much easier and I don't have a bunch of paper to keep up with. Also, i can just take a look at the spreadsheet to see what settings I used for a particular seed type.

This from the same guy who planted a whole field without engaging the drive wheel.

It's a lot easier getting to where you need to be when you can admit you make mistakes.

 

[Foggy47]

I musta not had my head screwed on right when I decided which way to turn that crank to calibrate. Dunno......but turn it the wrong way I did. After realizing my mistake.....I went to the book....and they never did state the direction to turn that crank.....thus I wasted allot of time. A good instruction manual should take care of fools like me.....and put data like this in print. NOBODY IS BORN KNOWING THIS CHIT. LOL. At one point in time I thought all older folks had this knowledge of everything mechanical.....but soon learned that is not the case. Even the most mechanically included (including Henry Ford) admit that they cannot remember all such things......and need to look things up. I rest my case. grin.

 

[Skye King]

Nobody laughs harder at me than I do.