crabs vs standard apples

[roymunson]

Trying to gain a breadth of understanding here on fruit trees. What are the pros and cons of crabapples vs standard and semidwarf varieties of apple trees when it comes to wildlife and specifically deer hunting.

Or is it just another way to get the job done and personal preferences?

Would like to plant a few more mast trees next spring on the farm

 

[chummer]

Probably not a problem in Ohio but I prefer crabs because they are easier to grow and survive winter much better. I think deer also prefer the one bite apples as long as they are edible.

 

[sandbur]

Probably not a problem in Ohio but I prefer crabs because they are easier to grow and survive winter much better. I think deer also prefer the one bite apples as long as they are edible.

That covers it all.

I also suspect certain crabs can handle the drought and cold of northern prairies better.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[roymunson]

So no real benefits to me in NE Ohio. We get winter, but not the deep freeze you guys up north do.

 

[roymunson]

I did put a dolgo in the ground late spring that seems to be doing pretty well thus far

 

[cavey]

For me its also about the volume a standard tree gives me in the way of fruit; and the longevity of life that a standard tree should give me over dwarfed trees... pruning is an issue, I have some rather large trees with my standard root stocks... I have a mix of crabs and apples which helps with pollination... and I have differing sizes of crab fruits from small to large. My crabs tend to be very hardy and disease resistant were the apples tend to be more effected by insects and disease.
But in the end everything gets eaten and trees that die get replaced. One thing I will say about apple trees is that around my place they are buck magnets - with a heavy drop the trees are social gathering points much the same as a water hole... they get checked constantly. Another thing that pushed me towards standard trees is the browse height of deer - a dwarfed tree just seemed to give up to much of a percent of productive area when you consider overall tree height and the browse line - a big deal? maybe not likely but it was a thought when I first started putting in fruit trees for wildlife.

As for Crab vs apple they both have there places and well like I said everything gets eaten - except by me,.... I don't eat many crab apples and there is nothing cooler than picking an apple to eat while walking to a bow stand.

 

[chickenlittle]

Crabs tend to get a group-think hype about how great and hardy they are vs apples. But there are many species of crabs, many hybrid crosses, and even small apples are called crabs. "Crabapples" have a wide variation in desirability and performance, especially if you are planting seedlings vs grafted crabs.

• Some crabapple varieties are hardy, productive, and disease resistant. Some are worthless. Seedlings are unknown until they produce.
• Some apple varieties are hardy, productive, and disease resistant.
• Some apple and crab varieties that others call hardy and disease resistant that will not be hardy or disease resistant for you.
• Do your research. Make the best decisions on what to plant. Replace or regraft to other varieties if you find you made a bad decision.

I would not get hung up on semi-dwarf vs standard rootstock. Seedling rootstock is considered standard but final size can vary considerably. MM111 and B118 are the biggest semi-dwarf but are sometimes called standard. An unspecified "semi-dwarf" dwarf rootstock could be something smaller like MM106 or M7. I have trees on all of those rootstocks.

 

[chickenlittle]

Also, the two trees removed from my orchard this year were a Dolgo crab that had some disease issues and a Wickson crab that never looked healthy and died mid-summer. Both were grafted trees from Cummins that I planted in 2015.

 

[Apple Junkie]

I hate to repeat what has already been said, but I think it is more important to consider the size of the tree you will be planting (determined by roostock) so it gets well above the browse line. I have both crabs and non-crabs. Crabs are prolific, but ya can't beat the taste of a fresh apple right off the tree. You might want to have both.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

I've posted here about the lack of "fussiness" of crabs and their seeming toughness for all sorts of conditions. Those are my observations at my camp in N.C. Pa. We have crabs that fruit from pea-sized to 2" dia. depending on variety. My comments aren't science-based, but just what I've seen over the past 22 years, when we planted our first crabs. They were seedlings from the Pa. Game Commission, and make 1/2" red and yellow fruit.

Since spring 2013, we've planted over 70 newer apples and crabs. Of those, the crabs just seem to grow & produce without a big headache. Some - not all - of the "regular" apples seem as though they need more babying to get good results. They sure seem to get eaten & chewed by bugs more than the crabs we have. The crabs will get some tent caterpillars now & then, but they aren't a big deal to get rid of. Wet season or dry season, hotter or cooler - the crabs just seem to do their thing. Other areas & regions may see different results than I see here.

We have a lot of full-sized, standard rootstock trees. We chose those because we have bears & want big, woody, heavy-branched trees for a lot of years so they can survive bears climbing - hopefully. The standard - rooted trees should get to about 30 - 35 ft. tall. The other trees are on MM-111 and B-118 roots, and should reach 18 to 24 ft. tall.

 

[Prof.Kent]

I grow apples to lure deer and to provide food for the family. One thing not being mentioned, and this is important to me: for deer, I want apple trees that hold their fruit on the tree through deer season (January 1). Yes, deer like crab apples, and love to browse them, but almost all crabs in my experience drop their fruit by the end of September. It is NOT common for apple tree information to mention how long the variety holds it fruit. Cold hardiness does not guarantee a long-hanging fruit. For example, Northern Spy apples start to drop as soon as they start to get ripe. Once on the ground they rot quickly. For deer you want apples that hang well after they get ripe. They will drop the insect/bird damaged fruit first. Wind will drop more. Critters climbing the tree will drop them. Deer pulling on the branches will do it also. You can even shake the tree yourself. As long as there are apples in the tree deer will keep checking them. Then they will come back and eat the leaves when they fall. After that the deer have no use for an apple tree except to browse on the limb buds.

For deer, I suggest planting apple trees on rootstocks of M106 or larger (most M7's will not grow trees much above the browse line) that have long-hanging fruit. IF you can find a crab apple tree with long-hanging fruit then graft or topwork your other crabs to that variety. Seedlings from that tree probably will not hold fruit as well as the mother tree. All seeds produce different trees with different characteristics.

A few Long-hanging varieties that I personally grow are: Goldrush, Honeycrisp, Rome, Shizuka, Golden Russet, Jonagold, & Jonathan. These are also all good eating apples. If you don't care to eat them yourself go with Rome and Golden Russet. They are more open trees and won't require as much pruning.

 

[sandbur]

My family seems to prefer some crabs over apples. I find that chestnut, centennial, and Trailman taste great. Crabs also make the best applesauce.

There are late hanging crabs. For me those would be kerr, Colombia, and a couple of seedlings. Turkey creek has two of these.

Plant crabs of different drop times in clusters to keep Deer using the area for months at a time.

Apple taste could vary with soils!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[chummer]

My family seems to prefer some crabs over apples. I find that chestnut, centennial, and Trailman taste great. Crabs also make the best applesauce.

There are late hanging crabs. For me those would be kerr, Colombia, and a couple of seedlings. Turkey creek has two of these.

Plant crabs of different drop times in clusters to keep Deer using the area for months at a time.

Apple taste could vary with soils!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My Kerr was still hanging on Thanksgiving last year, started dropping in October. They are my number one tree going forward.

 

[H20fwler]

I like crabs because they seem to be tougher and able to thrive on little maintenance better than regular apples.
For late hanging fast growing fast fruiting crabs I’ve had the best luck with NWC trees.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Prof. Kent - I agree with you at post #11 for late hangers. We also have Goldrush, Enterprise, Galarina, Kerr and an unknown greenish apple that hangs all winter. Most of our "eater" crabs are done & gone in October, but we have plenty of other apples and 2 crabs that hang on into winter. Those 2 crabs are All-Winter-Hangover and Winter Wildlife. When we chose our selections, our aim was to cover from September to January - or later with a few varieties. The longer we can keep them interested and coming back, the better - and not just for hunting. We like to see them through winter with some extra nutrition between our apples & crabs, browse-level plants, and our food plots.

Sandbur & Chummer both mentioned Kerr above. We have several Kerr too, and they hang on into December for us, - even on our young trees. As those trees get older & stronger, I suspect they may hold on longer, but only time will tell. I'm hoping for later on those. Kerr crabs are great eaters in October !!

Does Golden Russet require much fussing ?? If they need to be pampered, sprayed regularly for diseases, etc. - they won't work for us at camp. Just wondering.

 

[sandbur]

To be clear, the definition of a crab is an apple that tends to be less than 2 inches in diameter. Crabs come in many flavors. Sweet, sour, spitters, etc.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk