Welcome To The Coop Forum
- Thread starter SD51555
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sandbur
5 year old buck +
My daughters are now 17 and 19, They are not avid hunters but did go with me this year and neither had a shot at a deer. The youngest passed a shot at a buck since she would have only crippled the deer.
So far, our hunting land has only been for our family.
Like Stu says, it is a hard decision to keep the younger hunters interested and to keep our deer goals in mind. My wife and I try to adjust our harvest to allow the younger hunters more oppportunity.
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bat man
Guest
You seem to have a lot of reasons that cooperatives won't work for a guy who sounds like he has never been a part of one.
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bat man
Guest
Shows you the success coops are already having. When a group of neighbors does not open their lands to public hunting, they have more deer than a public hunting area.
Its proof positive that even the slightest orchestrated effort produces change.
Within our larger coop we have 2 smaller 1,100 acre groups at a more intense level. The 1,100 I am in would have seen appx 5 does per year shot. None were taken this year as we all agreed to grow the deer numbers. Does were off limits.
bueller
Moderator
Guess that's the skeptic in me. Do I think they can work, yes. Do I think one could work in my particular neighborhood, I doubt it.
But I'm honest enough to admit that over the years there have been plenty of ideas I've resisted, thought wouldn't work, or thought I wouldn't like that have turned out opposite of what I initially thought. And not just deer hunting related.
I'm the new guy on the block so for now I need to meet more people before I can even consider talking about any kind of coop.
Also at this stage of my hunting journey I still like to take my one deer a year, whether its a doe or a buck. How do I talk to others about not shooting does when I may very well take one? That would be hypocritical. With the amount of hunters we have in our area, combined with the lower deer numbers and lack of serious trophy potential I just don't think a coop would be very successful here. Even if some got on board I think we would be the small majority and would see minimal if any positive results. Again I've been known to eat my words in the past.
bueller
Moderator
Yep I came to that conclusion a couple years ago over. I watched it go from nearly great hunting IMO, to be pitiful in matter of a couple years. I dream of it coming back, but just a dream that probably is.
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bat man
Guest
I think you are well on your way to becoming a self fulfilling prophecy. Somebody has to start the neighborhood conversation, and apparently you would be the one with some information to start it rolling.
5Joe and myself hunt an area where most would feel so guilty if they shot a doe, it simply will not happen over most of the area for a couple years. They know their neighbors are not shooting does and they know does drop fawns. And they want more deer. My 10 year old son won't even shoot a doe and that his choice, not mine.
Never happen without the coop.
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bat man
Guest
And if your neighbors dont know you are doing it their motivation to 'take the lead' won't happen. Most people want to be told what to do (or soft sold as educated). They want to be part of something. Somebody has to create that something for them to be a part of.
sandbur
5 year old buck +
Unless we can get the state to back off on doe permits. In the not too distant past we had 200 plus pound bucks killed of of the state land by me.
AND we need some of these state management areas manged for deer, not all grasses and tweety birds.
bueller
Moderator
Agreed that all participants must sacrifice for a coop to work. With that being said I knew when I purchased land where I did that I would likely never have the type of hunting where I can watch 10-20 does pour out into a feeding area. Or watch "small" 10 point buck cruise past knowing that I'll see him or something bigger if I pass him. And I'm perfectly OK with that. My expectations are low enough that they are likely to be succeeded. Especially if I get some sort of coop rolling ;). If I had bought land 100% for hunting it would have been in an area where coops are likely already common place.
sandbur
5 year old buck +
Telling them does not work with stubborn Germans (I just look in the mirror). Soft sell is right.
sandbur
5 year old buck +
I intend to eat venison every year if I can do so without hurting the herd. Just my choice.
Bypassing young bucks would be easy for many of us IF we had decent deer numbers.
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bat man
Guest
Average parcel is (rough guess) 120 acres? Lots of swamp. Guidelines are really made by each landowner. We started with a 4 points on side buck rule, but many modified this year to zero does and guys could shoot any buck. (under 18 and over 80 are exempt from any harvest restrictions.) Strange thing happened. Guys still passed small bucks. Only 1 spike was shot that I know of by an adult, my 10 year shot a 6 point, and a 16 year old killed a 5 point.
Its a very satisfying feeling to watch a young buck or doe walk off your piece and know they are safe for the next mile in almost any direction.
The community of hunters can change the culture very quickly. The doe ban occurred almost overnight when we sent a letter explaining the home range of does, and the impact on your piece of shooting 'blank' percent of your adult does each year does to your herd size.
SD51555
5 year old buck +
At work we use the "Four Disciplines Of Execution" model for sales management. Sparing you all the details... The one thing we do is commit to doing one thing per week that is indicative of moving our goal forward. So instead of looking at the enormity of building a successful coop as one action item, pull it back and focus on having one conversation with your closest and most likely to play-ball neighbor first. Once you do that, pick another small action item and go at it again. Not all will work. That happens at the shop often. We regroup and make a new commitment the next week, and we keep moving ahead.
For example, who would get more neighbors on board this month, someone who reaches out and tries, or someone who doesn't? It sounds overly simplistic, but it helps to maintain clarity when you break it down to bite size action items.
For example, who would get more neighbors on board this month, someone who reaches out and tries, or someone who doesn't? It sounds overly simplistic, but it helps to maintain clarity when you break it down to bite size action items.
bueller
Moderator
I like the loose and fluid "rule" structure. It would be nice to imagine ANY deer walking past a neighboring hunter and not being killed. Change is hard but that can be an advantage in the long run. As you said you guys relaxed the buck restrictions but people still passed on them because that had become the norm. Success is contagious and addicting. Once created and successful I can envision a coop continuing to grow as others see what's going on.
Another major obsticale I would face is small parcels. A 40 by us is considered big and an 80 is huge. Many 10-20 acre parcels and smaller in the area. And most of them have multiple gun hunters each year. It would take upwards of 25 landowners to make up a square mile by me.
Another major obsticale I would face is small parcels. A 40 by us is considered big and an 80 is huge. Many 10-20 acre parcels and smaller in the area. And most of them have multiple gun hunters each year. It would take upwards of 25 landowners to make up a square mile by me.
SD51555
5 year old buck +
Those consultants make their rounds in the biz world with their books and models. 4DX, Situational Leadership, The Lilkeability Factor etc.
sandbur
5 year old buck +
Jeff-My neighbors know I am a habitat nut and I have a big advantage over you. Both of the neighboring landowners in my section pass some deer, the problems occur when they let other hunt their lands. Plus we have been neighbors for over 25 years and they were/are my clients. I might ease into the passing of doe thing starting today.
Bowsnbucks
5 year old buck +
I'm 1000 miles from you Minn. guys, but we've done the " lay off the does " thing around my immediate hunting area in northern Pa. I agree with SD51555 in post #9 on first page. I stopped in at one of the neighboring camps at the end of the second day of our rifle season just to say " hey - how are you guys making out? " They wanted to know how my camp was faring and things just took off. Make the stop, break the ice, let 'em see your enthusiasm for the habitat - deer - grouse - pheasants, etc. so they see you're " into it " the same as they are. Deer hunters talking to deer hunters already have common ground. Look at what we do on HERE !! I've never met any of you guys in person, yet I'd feel comfortable around all of you. Meet. Talk. Share common thoughts - goals - gripes over low numbers - etc.
I told the guys at the camp I mentioned above ^^^ that my camp was talking about laying off the does for a couple years to get the numbers back up. Guess what? They were thinking along the same lines. But neither of us would have known that had I not stopped in at their camp. Doesn't make me a genius, but look what stopping in to say hello got rolling. They talked to another neighbor camp, we talked to another camp - pretty soon we were all laying off the does and in 2 yrs., things were turning around numbers-wise.
No talk - no positive action taken / started. We now stop in at each other's camps, play cards, shoot trap, have a few cold sudsies. Not a formal co-op, but shared interests / goals. Things CAN get better guys.
I told the guys at the camp I mentioned above ^^^ that my camp was talking about laying off the does for a couple years to get the numbers back up. Guess what? They were thinking along the same lines. But neither of us would have known that had I not stopped in at their camp. Doesn't make me a genius, but look what stopping in to say hello got rolling. They talked to another neighbor camp, we talked to another camp - pretty soon we were all laying off the does and in 2 yrs., things were turning around numbers-wise.
No talk - no positive action taken / started. We now stop in at each other's camps, play cards, shoot trap, have a few cold sudsies. Not a formal co-op, but shared interests / goals. Things CAN get better guys.
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bat man
Guest
Excellent template. I spend an awful lot of time on the side of the road during rifle season talking to whoever I find by their vehicle. It really does not take much effort to get traction.
