Thanks for the information I'll keep an eye out might check some arboretums too. I found the columnar English oaks easily online I think I may get some of them to plant amongst a group of burs and chinkapins. Hopefully I could get some sort of hybrid that way plus I can plant these close to my chestnuts with out worrying about them cross pollinating them. Seems like the columnar English oaks have more problems than the hybrids which I assume is why they hybridized them with swo and wo.
The Woods ... mistakes I'v made
- Thread starter OakSeeds
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Shedder
5 year old buck +
An example around here where they are fairly common. Some years they are heavy in seed. I didn't see any on this one.
It was noticeably thick and bushy.
Crosses with SWO are showing up here, too, but most are small so far.
I posted about columnar oaks on here or the other site, a few years ago. I posted pics of some in a garden center where the guy said they were a lot younger tan I would expect for 30 foot trees. They grow fast, I guess.
If someone wants seed I may be able to get some. No guarantees as I haven't looked much.
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I don't think I've ever seen a columnar oak until they were mentioned here. That has a tight columnar form that would be great if they hold leaves through the winter too. I wonder how many lbs of acorns these could produce in a tightly spaced acre a 20x20 spacing would be 109. This isn't realistic but just day dreaming a bit.
DLH ... I applaud your efforts to create your own hybrid oak; not only is it wise to have diversity in your mast plantings, it is cool to try to create a hybrid oak tree. Others may be doing it by accident (planting multiple types of oak trees) or on purpose, but I think it's neat when folks like you experiment with your habitat efforts. I have 4-5 columnar (Regal Prince) in a line with Bur oaks (4 that produce giant acorns) on each side. The bur oaks are only 12-14 feet from the RPs since I want max opportunity for cross pollination. Given the columnar shape of the Regal Prince col. oaks, this should pose no problem. I have some time (quite a bit) to learn if this experiment results in RP acorns of larger size. Your observation about the mast potential of a mature columnar oak is spot on, and one of the primary reasons I am growing this tree in addition to it's "living Fence" potential.
Shedder .. my friend ... great photo of what I suspect might be a columnar English oak and not a crimson or street spire hybrid (similar leaf shape for all 3). Since the Crimson Spire was introduced by J Frank Schmidt in 1994, I doubt the tree in your photo would have achieved it's great height in 20 yrs - but who knows. In the Fall 2015, I had access to 4 Crimson Spire trees that cranked out lots of acorns; I have about 15 offspring from these trees growing today. Unfortunately, these 4 CS source trees aborted their acorns early in their development during the 2016 and 2017 fall; now I am somewhat gun shy about growing them. Too bad since the CS trees - in spite of some unfortunate characteristics - hold their leaves well into the winter and produce copious amounts of seed. For a little history on col. WOs ... https://www.uaex.edu/yard-garden/resource-library/plant-week/oak-english-columnar-03-05-10.aspx Again, thanks for your insights.
Shedder .. my friend ... great photo of what I suspect might be a columnar English oak and not a crimson or street spire hybrid (similar leaf shape for all 3). Since the Crimson Spire was introduced by J Frank Schmidt in 1994, I doubt the tree in your photo would have achieved it's great height in 20 yrs - but who knows. In the Fall 2015, I had access to 4 Crimson Spire trees that cranked out lots of acorns; I have about 15 offspring from these trees growing today. Unfortunately, these 4 CS source trees aborted their acorns early in their development during the 2016 and 2017 fall; now I am somewhat gun shy about growing them. Too bad since the CS trees - in spite of some unfortunate characteristics - hold their leaves well into the winter and produce copious amounts of seed. For a little history on col. WOs ... https://www.uaex.edu/yard-garden/resource-library/plant-week/oak-english-columnar-03-05-10.aspx Again, thanks for your insights.
I'm glad you brought this thread up because I've learned quite a bit from this I'm always on the look out for unique trees like this. I thought the hybridization sounded good until I did some more research I did realize that oaks can self pollinate I thought they were like chestnuts. Have you heard of a green pillar oak? I just noticed one in a catalog and apparently it's a columnar pin oak. I would guess these are even less common than the other columnar oaks.
DLH ... thanks for the heads up on columnar pin oaks; I was not aware of the Green Pillar Oak. Because pin oaks have issues with the soil in my areas (iron chlorosis) I try to avoid planting them even though they can have branching structure literally 1' off the ground, provide acorns for turkeys, deer, ducks and lots of other critters, and will tolerate really wet feet for extended periods of time.
After 1.5 inches of rain and a couple of cool, wet days, one of my Crimson Spire col. oaks is showing lots of powdery mildew (see attached photos); planting some of these trees is another mistake I hope to avoid in the future by planting only Regal Prince. Powdery mildew usually won't harm the tree very much; however, it can cause it to drop most/many of its leaves. On another note, I checked a chestnut protected by a 5.5 diameter cage ... unfortunately, the deer have browsed all limbs extending outside the cage. Suggests it's true that deer really like chestnuts.
After 1.5 inches of rain and a couple of cool, wet days, one of my Crimson Spire col. oaks is showing lots of powdery mildew (see attached photos); planting some of these trees is another mistake I hope to avoid in the future by planting only Regal Prince. Powdery mildew usually won't harm the tree very much; however, it can cause it to drop most/many of its leaves. On another note, I checked a chestnut protected by a 5.5 diameter cage ... unfortunately, the deer have browsed all limbs extending outside the cage. Suggests it's true that deer really like chestnuts.
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I noticed people sometimes worry about the quality of fruit trees available for purchase at big-box stores like Lowe or Home Depot. My experience has been only with Lowes; however, every one of the $10-12 "sale" pear trees I have purchased from Lowes produced at least one pear after a year in the ground. Attached are photos of some pears from Keiffer pear trees purchased at Lowes ... long as a pop can and twice as round. Excellent soft mast.
Bowsnbucks
5 year old buck +
I just saw - by accident - my first columnar oak trees. They were in a parking lot of a shopping center where I went to grab some groceries. They had very pointed leaves & looked much like the regular pin oak I have in my yard. Maybe the same type DLH was talking about in post #25 ?? Very tight structure.
Good reminder read for this time of the year. https://www.extension.umn.edu/garden/yard-garden/trees-shrubs/protecting-from-winter-damage/
Bowsnbucks
5 year old buck +
Oakseeds - I can certainly take pix of those col. oaks. The problem is - I've tried to put other pix on this forum and I'm not gadget-wise to get them off the camera, in the computer, and then onto this forum. My wife has also tried to accomplish that task and we keep getting stymied somehow. Neither of us lives and dies for the " tech race " or keeps up with the latest invention or process. It's a 2-edged sword. Some things I wish I had mastery of - and other times I'm glad I don't.
If I can find someone literate in such things, ( to show me ), I can certainly post some pix.
If I can find someone literate in such things, ( to show me ), I can certainly post some pix.
I'v read or heard the statement that deer like/prefer chestnuts over oak acorns by a wide margin. Can't say I've seen any proof with regard to acorns; however, I have seen some evidence regarding browse. In a remote section of one property, I have a chestnut planted (direct seeded with intent to move ... didn't get it done) within 3 feet of a swamp white oak (actually a couple three WOs). Deer have browsed the heck out of the chestnut and hardly touched the oaks; maybe there was less tender new growth on the oaks or some other reason. They clearly like chestnuts ... you folks obviously know that. :-) I didn't get the chestnut protected by a larger cage (retained the cage installed when the acorn was direct seeded).
Don't know if the deer bent the limbs over or if the chestnut was one of those "bushy" types. Another mistake ... always make sure the cage is big enough!
Don't know if the deer bent the limbs over or if the chestnut was one of those "bushy" types. Another mistake ... always make sure the cage is big enough!
round-tuit error .... had a blue spruce that needed a larger protective cage. Removed the old one, intending to replace with a larger cage. You guessed it .... I got busy preparing for the gun season and didn't get around to it. Unfortunately, in this woods, if you don't protect it the deer will knock off more than a few limbs trying to get to the trunk. Hope the rascal stops by in the morning; if so, and he's big enough I'm liable to plunk his butt in retaliation.
Often I notice folks asking which type of hard/soft mast trees (e.g., oaks or pears) will produce mast (acorns) in the fewest number of years. While many factors can/will influence how soon trees begin to fruit and the quantity of fruit produced; in general the larger the tree the sooner it may produce greater amounts of mast. And what is above ground is somewhat dependent on what's underground (the root mass and structure), In an earlier post I shared info from a MN organization discussing how to prepare trees for the winter.
They said ....
"Roots do not become dormant in the winter as quickly as stems, branches and buds, and roots are less hardy than stems. Roots of most trees and shrubs that grow in Minnesota are killed at temperatures at or below 0 to +10°F. These plants survive in Minnesota because soil temperatures normally are much higher than air temperatures and because soil cools down much more slowly than air temperature.
Many factors influence soil temperature. Moist soil holds more heat than dry soil, so frost penetration will be deeper and soil temperatures colder for sandy or dry (drought) soils. Snow cover and mulch act as insulators and keep soil temperatures higher. With newly planted trees, cracks in the planting hole backfill will allow cold air to penetrate into the root zone, reducing fall root growth or killing newly formed roots.
To encourage fall root growth and to reduce root injury, mulch new trees and shrubs with 6 to 8 inches of wood chips or straw. If the fall has been dry, water heavily before the ground freezes to reduce frost penetration. Check new plantings for cracks in the soil and fill them with soil." (all emphasis added)
I suspect that when the soil temperature remains above 40-degrees tree roots will continue to grow. Much of the Midwest will see 40-50 degree temperatures by this weekend.
If the ground above the root zone of your trees had been covered/insulated by 8 inches of quality mulch (straw/wood chips) the soil should be warm enough for growth in spite of the fact that some pretty cold air has been experienced over the past 7-10 days. If you are concerned about rodent damage (mice,voles,etc), place landscaping fabric covered with pea gravel as many have suggested.....THEN mulch with straw bricks (a bale of straw left out in the weather for a year or 2 can be sliced off in sections as bricks .. see attached photo / straw has matted and could be replenished) or wood mulch. This technique will require a little more effort at the time of initial planting; however, the improved growth potential should occur for several years after planting. Add timely watering and adequate fertilizer, and you will boost/accelerate the growth rate of your mast trees. Sorry for the long post.
A better photo ...
They said ....
"Roots do not become dormant in the winter as quickly as stems, branches and buds, and roots are less hardy than stems. Roots of most trees and shrubs that grow in Minnesota are killed at temperatures at or below 0 to +10°F. These plants survive in Minnesota because soil temperatures normally are much higher than air temperatures and because soil cools down much more slowly than air temperature.
Many factors influence soil temperature. Moist soil holds more heat than dry soil, so frost penetration will be deeper and soil temperatures colder for sandy or dry (drought) soils. Snow cover and mulch act as insulators and keep soil temperatures higher. With newly planted trees, cracks in the planting hole backfill will allow cold air to penetrate into the root zone, reducing fall root growth or killing newly formed roots.
To encourage fall root growth and to reduce root injury, mulch new trees and shrubs with 6 to 8 inches of wood chips or straw. If the fall has been dry, water heavily before the ground freezes to reduce frost penetration. Check new plantings for cracks in the soil and fill them with soil." (all emphasis added)
I suspect that when the soil temperature remains above 40-degrees tree roots will continue to grow. Much of the Midwest will see 40-50 degree temperatures by this weekend.
If the ground above the root zone of your trees had been covered/insulated by 8 inches of quality mulch (straw/wood chips) the soil should be warm enough for growth in spite of the fact that some pretty cold air has been experienced over the past 7-10 days. If you are concerned about rodent damage (mice,voles,etc), place landscaping fabric covered with pea gravel as many have suggested.....THEN mulch with straw bricks (a bale of straw left out in the weather for a year or 2 can be sliced off in sections as bricks .. see attached photo / straw has matted and could be replenished) or wood mulch. This technique will require a little more effort at the time of initial planting; however, the improved growth potential should occur for several years after planting. Add timely watering and adequate fertilizer, and you will boost/accelerate the growth rate of your mast trees. Sorry for the long post.
A better photo ...
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Friday, I got several things done in a small woodlot I have been working to make into a sanctuary. I was pleased when I pushed a large group of does out of the 20+ ac woodlot; there is a river bottom area less than a mile away and the does attract bucks starting in early Oct. I was surprised to find several rubs on small trees in the woodlot; I would have thought the doe families would have claimed the area for themselves. Since the rubs were small (see sample photos) I didn't expect to see a big buck on the property. I worked at the same location today (Sunday pm) and pushed out 5 deer at noon (2 does and 3 basket bucks). These 3 dudes were probably the culprits beating on my trees. They had to be small bucks since 2 rubs required the buck to stick his head inside the cage. I wonder if a young doe might have come into estrus very late; assuming she was born late in the summer and didn't cycle in either Nov. or Dec.
Also tried a new planting technique today. I had placed 25-30 pears (little sugar pears off a very old tree) in a plastic cat litter container and forgot about them until 2 weeks ago.
Since they were too gooey to cut and remove seeds, I used a short piece of 2 X 4 to mash them into the consistency of applesauce, dug a very shallow trench and spread "pearsauce" liberally the length of the trench; covered the trench and placed a long section of hardware cloth over it for protection. If little pear trees come up this spring, I'll transplant some into pots and nurse them through the summer. Wish me luck!
Also tried a new planting technique today. I had placed 25-30 pears (little sugar pears off a very old tree) in a plastic cat litter container and forgot about them until 2 weeks ago.
Since they were too gooey to cut and remove seeds, I used a short piece of 2 X 4 to mash them into the consistency of applesauce, dug a very shallow trench and spread "pearsauce" liberally the length of the trench; covered the trench and placed a long section of hardware cloth over it for protection. If little pear trees come up this spring, I'll transplant some into pots and nurse them through the summer. Wish me luck!
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tynimiller
5 year old buck +
I am extremely intrigued by the pear technique you are experimenting with! KEEP US POSTED!
