Seguins - Dwarf Chinese Chestnuts question - Transfered from QDMA forum
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yoderjac
5 year old buck +
I've had mold issues off and on growing chestnuts from nuts for years. They are high in carbs and susceptible. I've tried all kinds of things including bleach solutions which I found reacted with the shell, had bad effects, and didn't really help much. My issues with mold seem to be related to mold exposure at the collection source verses my handling of them. For example one year, I got nuts from Wayne and nuts from Chestnut Ridge. I had virtually no mold issues with the Chestnut ridge nuts and significant mold issues with the nuts I got from Wayne. While improper handling of nuts during collection can exacerbate the problem, much of it has to do with the weather conditions at the collection source.
None of my mold issues have been as bad a the issue with these Seguins from Schumacher. I don't know if anything I'm doing is right or wrong or if anything can really be done to have a significant positive impact. Here is what I did this time with the Seguins and what I've observed so far.
1) Most of the nuts looked fine when received but a few were completely covered with mold.
2) I rinsed them under cold water and fully hydrated them before storage.
3) I put one group in with damp long-fiber sphagnum to cold stratify. I put other nuts at about 10 per ziplock bag in cold storage with no added moisture.
4) On 6/15 I checked them and found lots of visible mold on most of the nuts (see previous post)
5) I took all of the nuts out of storage. I used Dawn foam and squirted some in my hand and rubbed a nut between my fingers and then rinsed it under running water. I then float tested each nut and threw out any soft nuts or floaters.
6) I used new ziplock bags to put them back in storage. I did some experimenting. With the nuts that were being stratified, I used live long-fiber sphagnum rather than the dried stuff. With one of the bags going into long term storage, I soaked the nuts for a few minutes in a ready-mix anti-fungal called Daconil. I just poured some from the spray bottle into a glass and soaked the nuts in it for a few minutes then rinsed them off before putting them back in storage with no added moisture.
7) They have now been in cold storage for 15 days since I cleaned them. I decided to plant those that were cold stratifying tonight, so I examined all fo the nuts. The nuts in cold stratification showed a little bit of mold but not a lot. Perhaps that was due to the fact that the antifungal properties of live long-leaf sphagnum are greater than the dried stuff. All of the bags in for long-term storage showed greater signs of mold except the one that was treated with Daconil.
8) So, I used Dawn foam again and washed and rinsed nuts individually again under running water. I planted the nuts that were cold stratifying in 18s. I decided to put the rest of the nuts back into long-term cold storage with no added moisture. This time, I reused the same ziplock bags, but I sprayed some of the Daconil in them first. This time I soaked all of the nuts in Daconil for several minutes before rinsing them, patting them dry with a paper towel, and returning them to the ziplock bags and fridge.
The 15 day results of using the Daconil "seemed" to be positive but I don't know what long term or side effects I'll see down the road.
Like Merle, I'm not encourage I'll see much from these nuts, but even if I get a few trees, they will be a source for future nut grown trees. I'll report back in a few weeks if I see any top growth.
Thanks,
Jack
None of my mold issues have been as bad a the issue with these Seguins from Schumacher. I don't know if anything I'm doing is right or wrong or if anything can really be done to have a significant positive impact. Here is what I did this time with the Seguins and what I've observed so far.
1) Most of the nuts looked fine when received but a few were completely covered with mold.
2) I rinsed them under cold water and fully hydrated them before storage.
3) I put one group in with damp long-fiber sphagnum to cold stratify. I put other nuts at about 10 per ziplock bag in cold storage with no added moisture.
4) On 6/15 I checked them and found lots of visible mold on most of the nuts (see previous post)
5) I took all of the nuts out of storage. I used Dawn foam and squirted some in my hand and rubbed a nut between my fingers and then rinsed it under running water. I then float tested each nut and threw out any soft nuts or floaters.
6) I used new ziplock bags to put them back in storage. I did some experimenting. With the nuts that were being stratified, I used live long-fiber sphagnum rather than the dried stuff. With one of the bags going into long term storage, I soaked the nuts for a few minutes in a ready-mix anti-fungal called Daconil. I just poured some from the spray bottle into a glass and soaked the nuts in it for a few minutes then rinsed them off before putting them back in storage with no added moisture.
7) They have now been in cold storage for 15 days since I cleaned them. I decided to plant those that were cold stratifying tonight, so I examined all fo the nuts. The nuts in cold stratification showed a little bit of mold but not a lot. Perhaps that was due to the fact that the antifungal properties of live long-leaf sphagnum are greater than the dried stuff. All of the bags in for long-term storage showed greater signs of mold except the one that was treated with Daconil.
8) So, I used Dawn foam again and washed and rinsed nuts individually again under running water. I planted the nuts that were cold stratifying in 18s. I decided to put the rest of the nuts back into long-term cold storage with no added moisture. This time, I reused the same ziplock bags, but I sprayed some of the Daconil in them first. This time I soaked all of the nuts in Daconil for several minutes before rinsing them, patting them dry with a paper towel, and returning them to the ziplock bags and fridge.
The 15 day results of using the Daconil "seemed" to be positive but I don't know what long term or side effects I'll see down the road.
Like Merle, I'm not encourage I'll see much from these nuts, but even if I get a few trees, they will be a source for future nut grown trees. I'll report back in a few weeks if I see any top growth.
Thanks,
Jack
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
Yes, I would say that the mold is different than any other mold I've had with chestnuts. I don't know if that is good or bad. I don't know if it will affect them the same as the previous mold I've had on chestnuts or not. I figured that I'd give them a try.CAS_HNTR;848277 said:
If the antifungal works on seguins, I may try using it prophylactically on chestnuts next year.
Thanks,
Jack
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
It has now been 23 days since I planted the seguins and none show top growth. I'm guessing none germinated. Today will be my last watering unless I see some top growth. Otherwise, I'll let the 18 dry out and do a post mortem on them. I doubt I'll ever use Schumacher again.
Merle Hawggard
5 year old buck +
I'm rooting for you Jack, mine were a bust.
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
In mid-October, I took out the seguin nuts. Once again they all had mold to varying degrees. Most were covered completely. I pessimistically washed the off again. Most of the mold came off easily. I discarded any nuts that were soft or didn't float. I then soaked them for a bit to fully hydrate them and put them in a bunch of new bags with damp long-fiber sphagnum to begin stratification. (keep in mind that they had been in cold storage but without added moisture). I had very little hope for them.
Well, tonight, I collected the last chestnut from the AU Buck trees on my deck. When I put them in the fridge to cold stratify, I took a quick look at the bags of seguin nuts. I saw at least a couple with a tiny root radicle beginning. So, perhaps all hope is not lost. I may actually have a shot at getting a couple trees out of this.
November 1st is a bit early for starting nuts indoors, but I don't want to miss an opportunity with these given the mold history. I'll try to find some time this week to take a closer look and make a plan.
Thanks,
Jack
Well, tonight, I collected the last chestnut from the AU Buck trees on my deck. When I put them in the fridge to cold stratify, I took a quick look at the bags of seguin nuts. I saw at least a couple with a tiny root radicle beginning. So, perhaps all hope is not lost. I may actually have a shot at getting a couple trees out of this.
November 1st is a bit early for starting nuts indoors, but I don't want to miss an opportunity with these given the mold history. I'll try to find some time this week to take a closer look and make a plan.
Thanks,
Jack
TreeDaddy
5 year old buck +
I will be interested in this
As discussed last summer, I was "0 for" in germination with seguins.
It remains unclear to me whether they should be soaked overnight,stratified,etc or placed in spagnum to germinate and then begin vernalization in a growing media or direct seeded
I have no idea and have yet to find a consensus
Ordering seedlings from wildlife group may be best option
bill
As discussed last summer, I was "0 for" in germination with seguins.
It remains unclear to me whether they should be soaked overnight,stratified,etc or placed in spagnum to germinate and then begin vernalization in a growing media or direct seeded
I have no idea and have yet to find a consensus
Ordering seedlings from wildlife group may be best option
bill
Neahawg
5 year old buck +
Ive heard if people planting bare root sequins and gets seeds the next year. I think collecting your own seed would be the best bet for getting viable nuts.
I germinated a lot of chestnuts and these were the first I had 0 germination with and I think that is from poor handling ptlrior to receiving them.
I germinated a lot of chestnuts and these were the first I had 0 germination with and I think that is from poor handling ptlrior to receiving them.
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
Bill,
It is clear to me now that they require 60 to 90 days of cold stratification. Much of the confusion on this probably came from me. Here is the history:
Castanea seguinii has a number of common names, Chinese Chinquapin, Dwarf Chinese Chestnuts, Dwarf Asian Chestnuts, and Seguin Chestnuts. My first interest in them came when I found native Allegheny Chinquapin growing on my farm. I collected seed from them and was discussing them on the old forum. One of the other posters suggested I also consider "Chinese Chinquapin" also called Seguin. Allegheny Chinquapin are related to chestnuts and are susceptible to blight but not as bad as American Chestnut. Unlike American Chestnuts, when Allegheny Chinquapin get blight, they still produce nuts. The poster suggested I try the Chinese Chinquapin because they are resistant to the blight like Chinese Chestnuts.
So, because the common name I first learned Chinese Chinquapin was similar to Allegheny Chinquapin, I assumed they were simply an Asian form of the Allegheny Chinquapin just like Chinese Chestnuts correspond to American Chestnuts.
I ordered seeds from Schumacher in October for December delivery. Schumacher is were I first saw the common name Dwarf Asian Chestnuts. Since the scientific name was the same, I ignored the common name and knew I was getting what I wanted. Schumacher had the same instructions for their Dwarf Asian Chestnuts as their Chinese Chestnuts, a minimum of 60 days of cold stratification. Since I assumed they corresponded more to Allegheny Chinquapins and Allegheny Chinquapins don't require cold stratification, I questioned if Schumacher's website was correct, or if they just didn't cut and paste the Chinese chestnut instructions since they called them Dwarf Asian Chestnuts.
Schumacher kept delaying delivery since their source was in China. I did not receive the seeds until late spring, too late for me to grow them this year if they needed cold stratification. I was surprised when I received the nuts. I expected them to be more rounded like Allegheny Chinquapins but instead they looked like tiny chestnuts with a flat side. They also arrived with significant visible mold.
I purchased a lot of nuts, so I decided to use a strategy hoping something would work. I clean the mold from the nuts. I then sent some nuts to others who had asked for them. I took one group of nuts and planted them in 18s with no stratification hoping that they did not need it and I could grow them over the summer. They all failed. I took a second group of nuts and tried cold stratifying them for 30 days. None produced a root radicle. The third group I simply put in cold storage with no added moisture or medium to keep until this winter for planting.
I checked this third group periodically over the summer and they continued to develop mold while in cold storage even without added moisture. I cleaned them and returned them to cold storage periodically. I planned to try to start them under lights in early December. So, about 60 days out, I cleaned mold from them once again and added moist long-fiber sphagnum to the bags and put them back in the fridge to cold stratify. I checked the other day and a few have the beginning of root radicles forming. Since keeping them in the cold with no added moisture slows the stratification process, halting it if the moisture content is low enough, it makes sense that some are developing root radicles in less than 60 days.
I'm now convinced that these require 60-90 days of cold stratification just like chestnuts. What surprises me is that even with all the mold issues at least some are still trying to grow!
You nailed it! I've started collecting my own nuts directly from the husks before they fall (Allegheny Chinquapins and Chinese Chestnuts) and I've had zero mold issues with them. If you have a source for collection, that is the ticket. As long as I get a few trees out of this seguin batch, my plan is to do exactly as you suggest.
I bough a package of AU Buck III and IV Chinese chestnut trees from the Wildlife Group and have been growing them on my deck in rootbuilder II 3 gal containers. They are producing nuts and I'm collecting them for planting.
Thanks,
Jack
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
Bill,
If you are talking about the AU Buck trees, I believe they were nut grafted in December and started in Jiffy Pots. The ones that took were transplanted into 5" root trapper bags in April according to Alan at the Wildlife Group. I believe I received them in November. I transplanted them into 3 gal RB2 containers and overwintered them in my garage. I then put them on my deck for the growing season. I was shocked that they produced a few nuts that year. I didn't have time to plant them, so I overwintered them again in a cold-room. This spring I put them back on my deck and they produced more nuts this year. I'll be planting them at the farm this year.
Keep in mind that growing them in Rootmaker containers on my deck is not representative of what to expect in the field, but the first couple nuts were produced in their second growing season.
Thanks,
Jack
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
Well, I decided to check the Seguins last night and I was not encouraged. Evidently the one nut I saw with a tiny root radicle was the only one, at least so far. They were mostly covered with mold once again. I washed them off individually and returned them to cold stratification in new bags with new sphagnum. I'll check them again in a couple weeks.
Thanks,
jack
Thanks,
jack
