Rage Survivor

Bszweda

5 year old buck +
I am pretty sure I shot this deer last year. I thought the shot was good, and I had decent blood. However I was unable to find her. She showed up on my trail camera this year =), which is great because now I know what happened to her. That rage didn't get the penetration it needed. (55 pound Matthews no cam). I have a 65 pound elite, which has much better penetration. I am kinda amazed by how much 10 more pounds on draw weight matters, when shooting 2 inch rages.
MFDC0598.JPG
 
That's cool that she made it and you got a pic of her. Was it a 2 blade or 3 blade rage? I have heard and experienced way too many horror stories about rage broadheads. My brother shot a doe with a 2 blade rage, perfect pass thru shot. We could hardly find any blood at all, did a body search after not finding enough blood to track her and found her 80-100 yards from the shot with a perfect double lung hit, but the blades did open on impact so it looked like a bullet hole.
 
need more info,

cause honestly to me, if that girl is standing broadside, she is toast if the arrow impacts where the scar is.

Bout the only way I could see her living to tell the tale was if is she was quartering head on hard. And the arrow just had no chance to bite.
 
If you were level with her or below her that shot could have been just above the lungs
 
It was a 2 inch hypodermic... She was actually slightly(15-20 degrees) quartering away ( Downward angle I was about 12 feet in a tree and she was in a 6- 8 feet deep gully creek) from me. The only thing that bothered me about the shot was it wasn't a pass through. I was worried i'd single lunged her. I still thought she was a goner anyways, but the blood dried up on my neighbor's property and I spent all day looking for her.
 
Last edited:
guess it just wasn't her day to go
 
The buck I shot this past year with the 2" Rage hit horizontal dead center on and broke a rib, then glanced off the rib next to it. It went trough and poked just out the other side. Not a pass through. That's what sucks when the Rage expands when it hits horizontal. If it hits vertical it's going to slice right through. I switched to a much heavier fixed blade broadhead. I look forward to shooting with confidence this year, even though I found and killed the buck I shot with the Rage.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I don't like 2 blade expandable broadheads. It is possible to through the vitals, miss contracted lungs and not cut sufficient arteries when you are only working in one dimension. I've used a variety of 3 bladed expandables. I switched to rage 3 blade a few years back. I have not had any issues with them yet. They have opened reliably for me so far. However, the last time I went to the sporting goods store, I found lots of 2 blade rage broadheads but none of the 3 bladed version I was using. I'm guessing they stopped making them for some reason.

Thanks,

Jack
 
Yeah I had a terrible experience with a 3 blade chiseled rage head. I hit a deer in the shoulder at 10 yards with a 60lb hoyt alphamax. Never got through the shoulder which to be fair the shot wasn't great, but from what I could tell, I don't think the blades ever opened. I never found a drop of blood, hair or arrow. I switched to NAP killzones after that and they work pretty nice. This year I am shooting a halon 6 with muzzy trocars.... nothing is gonna stop that arrow. :emoji_smirk:
 
Tried mechanicals one time many years ago. I think they were NAP Shockwaves. Elevated stand, 17 yard shot, 140 class 8 pointer and hit right behind front shoulder. Arrow ripped a big gash down the ribcage, no penetration. Thankfully, saw him the next week chasing does with a big scab on his side. Threw the mechanicals away and went back to fixed blades. I know guys that love mechanicals but my first and only experience was a bad one.
 
I have been hunting with fixed blades for the past several years. I hit a buck that got away from me last fall. I switched to rage hypodermic this season and I hope I dont regret it. I wondered if the extra cutting diameter would have been enough to bring him down. My broad head couldn't have missed his heart (low) by more than a 1/2". But then again as mentioned above If the 2 blade deploys horizontally it wouldn't matter anyway.
 
Only time draw weight really makes a difference is if everything else is the same. DL will make a difference in potential penetration but arrow build is a HUGE player in the game.

I would bet anyone with the right arrow anyone could have their 55 lb DW bow out penetrating say a 65lb DW with an arrow build which everyone commonly sees say 400gr total and just 7% FOC.
 
Only time draw weight really makes a difference is if everything else is the same. DL will make a difference in potential penetration but arrow build is a HUGE player in the game.

I would bet anyone with the right arrow anyone could have their 55 lb DW bow out penetrating say a 65lb DW with an arrow build which everyone commonly sees say 400gr total and just 7% FOC.

Care to elaborate, this subject is of high interest that I know little about.

With the little time I have, I always just went straight to the pro shop to have them set up my bow an arrows.
Shoot 65 DW, 29.5 draw, with a 340 spine Easton axis arrow. 100grain Broadheads
Have only had one arrow not fully exit an that was because I hit a rib on the opposite side. 100grain Nap Bloodrunner I believe.
Don't really know much else grain wise an the like,
I always just kept it the same cause I was able to keep a tight pattern out to 50.

Any I missing out on something that I should have more info on?
Any recommended books?
Always looking to learn something new.
Thz
 
I went to 150 grain cutthroats this year. Hoping that if I accidentally hit my target buck more forward than wanted, he won't get away. My hunting arrows weigh 496 grains with broadhead. If I remember correctly I have a 12-15% FOC. I could have went 200 grain heads and been just about perfect. After shooting mechanicals for so long, these single bevel broadhead fly the same as field points. The increase of 50 grams lowered my shot about 8 inches at 50 yards. It really wasn't as big of a deal as I thought it was going to be, and now if I did it again I would have bought the 200 grain cutthroats.

If I remember from all of my research, a 18% FOC was optimal for penetration purposes. It has graphs showing penetration and FOC calculations. It has to do with how the arrow bends upon impact, and the proper FOC drives the arrow instead of losing energy in it bending, or something along those lines.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I think I have killed two deer with rage heads. Watched youtube videos of the carnage and thought I'd try it. I also like the bullet-like arrow flight. One deer wasn't memorable, just died like they do with any good hit and broadhead. The other was a very sick 8-point. My son and I jumped him and noticed a pus-like substance in the bed. He was trailing it like blood only there wasn't much blood. We followed him and caught up with him standing in a creek, too exhausted to move about a 100 yards from where we jumped him. He looked awful, huge ticks all on his neck and gaunt, shrunken, no meat. I killed him to put him out of his misery. Shot several (at least two I think 3) rages through his chest from like 8 yards, he just wouldn't die. Was a bad slow death and kind of a bad experience for my young son. I think he had either been shot or maybe got stabbed fighting and it got infected. Was a mess. Anyways now I use slick trick fixed heads and have been very pleased. I have had three very quick kills, less than 40 yards. They have all taken off running and die in midstride 20 to 40 yards out. They seem to fly as good as field tips so I just figure why bother with expandables now.
 
Care to elaborate, this subject is of high interest that I know little about.

With the little time I have, I always just went straight to the pro shop to have them set up my bow an arrows.
Shoot 65 DW, 29.5 draw, with a 340 spine Easton axis arrow. 100grain Broadheads
Have only had one arrow not fully exit an that was because I hit a rib on the opposite side. 100grain Nap Bloodrunner I believe.
Don't really know much else grain wise an the like,
I always just kept it the same cause I was able to keep a tight pattern out to 50.

Any I missing out on something that I should have more info on?
Any recommended books?
Always looking to learn something new.
Thz

I am terribly poor at explaining arrow builds personally, however look around http://www.grizzlystik.com/ they have a plethora of knowledge, videos and write ups on arrow building and why weight and FOC and other things are so crucial in maximizing penetration, especially when bone comes into play or we enter the realm of bigger game than deer...even to the extreme of water bufallo or even elephants.

Their list of 12 things to increase penetration or cause better penetration is worth at least looking over : http://www.grizzlystik.com/Top-12-Arrow-Penetration-Enhancing-Factors.aspx

I personally say all this not as an advertisement but to educate. I don't even use their arrows (yet) or heads (yet)...I use Black Eagle arrows, but all I've learned from them and elsewhere (sources which support their reports and Mr. Ashby's) has helped me understand crucial aspects of arrow building. It is why I use 125 gr slick tricks instead of 100 gr....it is why I use weighted inserts to boost my FOC...it is also why IF or WHEN I finally get the chance to pursue bigger game or simply justify the money I will be upgrading to their tapered high foc arrows, with their single bevel heads. I want to minimize any and every chance my error in placement of a shot could result in the loss of an animal....and I know that if I get a pass through my odds are better, I also know that if I contact bone their set up will greatly enhance/elevate my chances at still performing a swift and devastating shot.

Blessings.
 
I shoot mostly traditional and arrow weight is king for these bows since they aren't as efficient from an energy stand point. I just got a compound within the last year to increase my yardage a bit and I am going with 10 grains per pound of draw weight so my 60lb bow will be shooting a 600 grain arrow (included brodhead too). Some guys go higher but that gets into larger game. Also my shots won't ever be over 40 yards because I don't practice often enough and I can't shoot 40 through the woods where I hunt. Also someone mentioned single bevels which I use too I think they are interesting because on impact they rotate as they go through the wound channel where double bevels rotate in flight then punch straight through on impact. Some believe this in combination with heavy arrows aid with bone contact. This is a heavily debated topic in archery so surf around and try to find more information.
 
A while ago, I did some research and fortunately came across Dr. Ashby. I am a big supporter of his research. This was started because of my wife's complaint of a lack of penetration. “Standard” knowledge seems to favor kinetic energy, the good doctor and now my wife and I are with momentum.

I do not know if it was because of a computer change but I can not find my “original complete” notes.

An IBO tournament shooter at work complained that he lost a deer and did not get “good” penetration. He was shooting around 50 pounds. Somehow I remember his speed and arrow weight were the same, 288 fps and 288 grains. He was shooting mechanicals, I do not remember which, but it was “popular”.

We have a chronograph and have shot many combinations. Looking at our data and plugging in his, my wife complained about her lack of energy. At 5'2”, she has a 24” draw. Those factors led me to my mad scientist testing.

Her momentum numbers were higher than his light arrows.

Some observations from a trip organized by a buddy from work.

My wife shot a hog and penetrated both sides, but not a complete pass through. One of my buddies, about 6'3”, shooting a compound at 65 pounds, no specs on his setup, made a similar shot at a similar distance, did not get an exit wound.

On another occasion, my wife made a beautiful shot on a goat at about 20 yards. From where I was, I saw and followed the trajectory. Not scientific, but I saw no deviation in trajectory after exit as she got a complete pass through.

I also got 2 shots on hogs, both about 300 #'s. My buddies could not believe the arrows I was shooting typically, Gold Tips with internal weights at 860 grains.

I got a broadside shot and was disappointed, maybe aggravated that I did not get a pass through. The hog may have gone 10'. The “organizer” of the trip was raving over the shot and I was complaining about the lack of penetration. Trying to figure out what happened, I found out that the hog was standing in front of a frozen hay bale. The arrow penetrated the bale some inches and as the hog moved forward, broke the arrow. At least I recovered the Grizzly head and the internal weights. My buddy ribbed me about not penetrating the frozen hay bale.

The next time out, I said that I would shoot a more “conventional setup”. I was shooting 2419's at about 650 grains. I shot a lot at Lincoln Bowmen with these, probably just to use them since I had them. I had drilled and tapped the inserts to take a hex screw and a nut that fit inside. I did not bareshaft these and I think that the weight softened the spine too much. So I took them out and practiced with the “stock” arrow.

I got a shot at another hog, quartering away. Fortunately, I made a nice shot. That arrow hit the opposite shoulder, did not pass through, and vibrated or “wiggled” violently. That arrow had Wensel Woodsman heads. These heads were hot melted on the adapters and not epoxied. Removing the arrow, the head remained inside the hog. I wondered what would have happened if the head was epoxied. I think that the head would not have penetrated the shoulder as it was stopped and the vibration detached the head from the arrow. Those heads had the wire point clipped and the head was resharpened. I wonder what the Grizzly would have done with my typical arrow.

My wife shoots 115 – 120 fps and I shoot 150 out of our longbows. Knowing our limitations, we are proponents of heavy tuned arrows, and fixed blade broadheads. Since reading a couple of posts, I learned about more single bevel manufacturers. The 3 to 1 dimension heads seem to be the “most efficient”.

I would appreciate anything from anyone shooting single bevel broadheads,
 
I would appreciate anything from anyone shooting single bevel broadheads,

Price commitments going elsewhere (stands, trees, burns and such) have kept me from taking the full plunge into single bevel and tapered arrows from Alaskan Bowhunting. I did however get a chance to test some of their Samurai heads a buddy from Michigan shoots on some farm raised big cow bones (everything from femur to shoulder socket...). I left that scene knowing one thing....if I had those heads, a high FOC arrow in my bow...I would struggle to find any reason to fear the shoulder/leg bone of a whitetail at all.

Now the biggest thing one has to get over though is the fact speed must be ignored....I have done this a long time ago going to a heavier arrow and adding insert weights personally, but still shoot my Slick Trick Magnums I've had in my quiver for years.

Last season I shot high on the buck I harvested and hit the spine stunning him obviously...I quickly before checking what arrow I had grabbed re-nocked an arrow and was shooting him again seconds later. The second arrow had a DRT single bevel head I was entertaining as a future option to the STs. The deer at the time of the second shot was quartering to me, with just his head and upper chest elevated off the ground...this arrow blew through the near shoulder and barely busted through (tip on other side of) opposite back end of shoulder blade. I was impressed.

Now I did last season after harvesting a buck, threw some DRT single bevel heads (apparently they only use double now) on my arrows as my primary heads and decided to give them a test. They are immensely cheaper than the AB heads would be but I'm sure metal quality is biggest difference. I did end up shooting a doe and my arrow did breeze through the flat thin part of the blade of a shoulder on a 3 or 4 year old doe for what it is worth.

just my only limited experience with single beveled heads...the science behind them is sound...and my brief experiences seems to support claims. Now are they overkill in the penetration ability on whitetails? Some could argue that, but I've never worried about blowing through a deer too easily LOL
 
Thanks for the reply. Hope that I am correct, I think that Slick Tricks are, were in on the trend of of short broadheads.

My preference is for a longer, narrow single bevel head.

My Grizzly heads are 2 3/4" L x 1 1/8" W. I will be checking since I have not lately, but I see that Tuffhead makes a true 3 to 1 head, 3 3/16L X 1 1/16W in 225 and 300 grain weights. I see that http://vintagearcheryco.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=4&products_id=18 has field tips in those weights. I will have to do some measuring to check how they fit arrows so that I don't pull tips when pulling from targets.

I am with you, can't have too much penetration. Laughing now about ignoring speed. I shoot 150 fps.

Geez, just what I needed, playing with more braodheads.
 
Top