chickenlittle
5 year old buck +
First maypole crab dropped yesterday and another overnight. Another Golden Sentinel dropped leaving 2 dozen apples left on that tree.
Project W: Columnar Apple Shot Plot
- Thread starter chickenlittle
- Start date
chickenlittle
5 year old buck +
The Maypole crab decided to drop about everything yesterday and today. Maybe 5 left on the tree. Too early to be useful for me when archery doesn't start until October.
Good color on the ones on the west side of the tree.
Good color on the ones on the west side of the tree.
chickenlittle
5 year old buck +
Here are some photos of the Golden Sentinels. Dropping a couple each day. I don't think I've lost one yet but one was a chewed on. I think these are nice size for deer apples but dropping earlier than I want. Ones on the west side got some red blush. Cleaner apples than the Maypole crabs.
chickenlittle
5 year old buck +
And the Tasty Red had another drop so 2 off that tree.
chickenlittle
5 year old buck +
Last of the Maypole crabs dropped overnight. Disappointed they dropped so early but it might just be this year's weather. I have some grafted onto other rootstocks so I'll see whether that makes a difference. I'd guess this tree from Stark is on MM106 rootstock.
My daughter and I took the seeds out of all the previous drops last night. It is a red fleshed crab, a little sour but she ate quite a few.
My daughter and I took the seeds out of all the previous drops last night. It is a red fleshed crab, a little sour but she ate quite a few.
chickenlittle
5 year old buck +
About a dozen apples left on Golden Sentinel, some with rotten spots. 8 apples on Tasty Red. Same 2 apples on Blushing Delight. The 3 apples on Golden Treat, all one cluster, dropped in the last few days. The Golden Treat and Tasty Red apples have been nice to eat but they brown quickly when cut open.
I definitely need to develop some new columnar varieties that will ripen and drop later to make this shot plot work. To increase chances, I'll have to figure out which crosses I want to make and hand pollinate next spring. Based on what should be flowering for me next year, crosses to Goldrush and Winecrisp are definite. Probably Enterprise and Florina Querina too. Will depend on me getting to the orchard at the right time to pollinate.
I definitely need to develop some new columnar varieties that will ripen and drop later to make this shot plot work. To increase chances, I'll have to figure out which crosses I want to make and hand pollinate next spring. Based on what should be flowering for me next year, crosses to Goldrush and Winecrisp are definite. Probably Enterprise and Florina Querina too. Will depend on me getting to the orchard at the right time to pollinate.
chickenlittle
5 year old buck +
I picked the last few off the Golden Sentinel a couple days ago as they were getting rotten spots. Still 4 apples on the Tasty Red and same 2 on the Blushing Delight.
chickenlittle
5 year old buck +
All apples dropped from Tasty Red today. Still 2 apples on Blushing Delight.
Tickrancher
Yearling... With promise
Cool idea. Planting tall thin apple trees near a bow stand would concentrate the food and hopefully the deer. One problem might be trees blowing over in storms. You may want to use a strong post or a trellis if the trees are not in a sheltered location. Have you considered shaping the trees via pruning rather than genetics? The form of apple trees is easily modified. Modern apple orchards use a planting and pruning program called 'Tall Spindle' to get the maximum number of apples per acre. In it the trees are tall with short side branches. The system does require periodic pruned as the tree matures. The links below are to YouTube videos that you may find interesting. They explain the system better than I can.
chickenlittle
5 year old buck +
Thanks for the post. You could make a great draw with a tall spindle but it would be high maintenance. Irrigation, fertilization, summer and winter pruning. Droughty weather would be hard on the dwarf trees if you can't irrigate. But it could drop a lot of apples with the right care.
The columnar trees are very stout and well anchored on larger rootstocks. No need to stake those trees.
The columnar trees are very stout and well anchored on larger rootstocks. No need to stake those trees.
tynimiller
5 year old buck +
I've always been told columnars suffer from wind breakage far less than any other type due to their shapes. Which makes perfect sense...I mean a tiny sail catches less wind right? :)
chickenlittle
5 year old buck +
Agreed.
Also, the columnars tend to be have much thicker and stiffer growth. New growth on some varieties is nearly 1/2" thick. No worries about trying to match up an 1/8" diameter twig of scionwood to the rootstock when grafting. More likely that the scionwood will be larger diameter that then rootstock.
Tickrancher
Yearling... With promise
How is the disease resistance in columnar trees? Fire blight can be devastating in Missouri, especially in wildlife plantings that may not be sprayed.
chickenlittle
5 year old buck +
The newer ones in the Urban Apple were developed to have genetic scab resistance. The older Spires are not scab resistant. Not a lot of information on powdery mildew, cedar apple rust, or fireblight. I'd be interested in getting someone with high disease pressure to try these and report back.
I'm not sure how fireblight will run through these. The flowers are on short spurs. If infection comes in through a flower, it is not far to reach mature wood where the spread should stop. It would not be easy to prune out fireblight if you had to. It is something I would like to evaluate in new columnar varieties.
I'm not sure how fireblight will run through these. The flowers are on short spurs. If infection comes in through a flower, it is not far to reach mature wood where the spread should stop. It would not be easy to prune out fireblight if you had to. It is something I would like to evaluate in new columnar varieties.
Lordkiwi
Yearling... With promise
would love to know how the various apples have tasted so far.
chickenlittle
5 year old buck +
Golden Sentinel is not too crunchy, pleasant to eat but not outstanding, dropped before seeds were brown in September to start of Octobrr. Described as aromatic by some.
Tasty red started dropping mid September into October. Seeds brown. Early drops crunchy and tart, likely not ripe. Late drops a little softer and sweeter.
Golden Treat. Dropped several apples late sept. Pleasant to eat but not memorable. Seeds were brown.
Rest maybe taste next year.
Tasty red started dropping mid September into October. Seeds brown. Early drops crunchy and tart, likely not ripe. Late drops a little softer and sweeter.
Golden Treat. Dropped several apples late sept. Pleasant to eat but not memorable. Seeds were brown.
Rest maybe taste next year.
tynimiller
5 year old buck +
Here's a question has anyone taken columnar cuttings and grafted them upon different rootstock with success?
chickenlittle
5 year old buck +
Tyni, do you mean different apple rootstock? If so, I have columnar trees on m26, m7, mm106, mm111, bud 118, polish 18, and seedling apple rootstocks.
tynimiller
5 year old buck +
Good deal. I have two Columnar trees in my house's backyard and have thought about once they mature somewhat attempting to graft from them over to other rootstocks...curious to the growth style they've portrayed in your experience?
chickenlittle
5 year old buck +
Tyni, I'm not sure exactly what you mean by growth style. You can see many examples of my trees on the previous pages. They do grow in a columnar form. They will get some branches which tend to be upright. I did not prune that much to start with as I wanted scionwood to graft with. This winter, I'll prune everything back to a single leader this winter.
I do have opinions on how to best graft the columnar trees. I prefer T-budding over bench grafting with cleft or whip and tongue. I've not done chip budding but that might be your fastest route. The issue is that columnar growth is usually larger in diameter than the rootstock and buds are spaced very close together. For cleft or whip&tongue, you use a large number of buds on each graft, maybe 8 or 10. I tried some larger caliper rootstock last year and found it was very difficult to work. For cleft grafting, you had big wounds to heal. For W&T, I had trouble getting it cut and lined up right. I also don't think I get much growth in the first summer for my bench grafts.
For T-budding, I plant the rootstock in the spring, t-bud in August, and cut the stock off above the T-bud in early spring and the established roostock pushes the t-bud nicely all summer. By the end of the summer, I'll have a 20 to 30" tall tree I can transplant. I think my t-buds are almost as tall as my 2nd leaf bench grafts. From the same piece of wood, I can bud many more trees than I could bench graft. I still waste half the buds but it is a lot more efficient.
With chip budding, you take the dormant scionwood and cut out individual buds. You could put a couple chip buds on the dormant roostock and plant out. I've not tried this. It is tricky getting the right notch cut in the stock to fit the chip bud you cut off the scionwood. But it better utilizes the available buds and you don't need to match diameters of the stock and scion, just get the chip and notch cut so the cambium lines up.
I do have opinions on how to best graft the columnar trees. I prefer T-budding over bench grafting with cleft or whip and tongue. I've not done chip budding but that might be your fastest route. The issue is that columnar growth is usually larger in diameter than the rootstock and buds are spaced very close together. For cleft or whip&tongue, you use a large number of buds on each graft, maybe 8 or 10. I tried some larger caliper rootstock last year and found it was very difficult to work. For cleft grafting, you had big wounds to heal. For W&T, I had trouble getting it cut and lined up right. I also don't think I get much growth in the first summer for my bench grafts.
For T-budding, I plant the rootstock in the spring, t-bud in August, and cut the stock off above the T-bud in early spring and the established roostock pushes the t-bud nicely all summer. By the end of the summer, I'll have a 20 to 30" tall tree I can transplant. I think my t-buds are almost as tall as my 2nd leaf bench grafts. From the same piece of wood, I can bud many more trees than I could bench graft. I still waste half the buds but it is a lot more efficient.
With chip budding, you take the dormant scionwood and cut out individual buds. You could put a couple chip buds on the dormant roostock and plant out. I've not tried this. It is tricky getting the right notch cut in the stock to fit the chip bud you cut off the scionwood. But it better utilizes the available buds and you don't need to match diameters of the stock and scion, just get the chip and notch cut so the cambium lines up.
