New Plot question

[FarmerDan]

Very good! Only other thing I would ask is for you to describe how you took your soil sample. Shovel or soil probe? How many samples? How deep?

If your plot is in or around Brooksville, the pH, calcium, and magnesium levels are understandable. It's called "The Bluegrass Area" for a reason!

If you can find some P2O5 the equivalent of 100 lbs per acres will take you a long way, but I don't find it essential. There's enough P to grow plot plants. If it were production ag where we were removing nutrients via crop removal, then, yes P would be a subject to discuss.

Add nitrogen (N) according to the needs of the crop you are planting ( 0 -100 lbs per acre)/

Good luck! I think you got it going on!

 

[EarthySpirit]

Thanks Dan. I'd say I took it for about 4" deep

 

[EarthySpirit]

Very good! Only other thing I would ask is for you to describe how you took your soil sample. Shovel or soil probe? How many samples? How deep?

If your plot is in or around Brooksville, the pH, calcium, and magnesium levels are understandable. It's called "The Bluegrass Area" for a reason!

If you can find some P2O5 the equivalent of 100 lbs per acres will take you a long way, but I don't find it essential. There's enough P to grow plot plants. If it were production ag where we were removing nutrients via crop removal, then, yes P would be a subject to discuss.

Add nitrogen (N) according to the needs of the crop you are planting ( 0 -100 lbs per acre)/

Good luck! I think you got it going on!
View attachment 16548

What is the meaning of this graphic, Dan? what do the numbers mean, and can you send the link? thanks!!!

 

[yoderjac]

Ok, great. thanks Jack. So you think that if I offer clover in all fields with a nurse crop of WR or WW, I'm good for the season? As I mentioned earlier, I have 51 acres. As of the end of spring I will have approximately 1.5 acres in plots. I have about 5 acres dedicated totally to hinge-cut bedding areas. They are loaded with does and small bucks. Right now, the Bigger bucks don't show up till the last week of October. Once they do, several 130-140's seem to be around. This past year there were about 5 separate ones. One may have been pushing 150. But, They are not staying on my property yet, as far as I can tell. They are following the does once the rut starts up. Maybe the clover will last until late november for N Ky, so that I dont' have to worry about december. I guess my concern about December was that if I did not get my buck in the primary rut, would I have enough food on my property to keep the bucks coming back for food in December. Does clover last through december in N KY, or does it go dormant by then? We don't get much snow, so I dont' worry about it covering the clover deeply for extended periods of time. As always, thank you so much Jack for your generous time you spend with me.

I'd use winter rye over winter wheat. It will continue to grow longer. If you want to have something for the late season, you could add 1 to 2 lbs/ac PTT but go light on it. Having late season food for attraction is a reasonable goal.

If you are just starting, I'd take it one step at a time. Get your perennial clover established this year. See how deer respond. The clover will last for many years. Each time the winter rye hits a foot or so, mow it back to 6"-8". This will release the clover. Think about adding some acreage with late season food to augment the clover nest year.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[FarmerDan]

What is the meaning of this graphic, Dan? what do the numbers mean, and can you send the link? thanks!!!

Its the natural pH of the soil. If I got where you are correct, you are in one of the largest contiguous areas of limestone soil in the world.
http://www.bonap.org/2008_Soil/pH20110321.png

Here are some other soil geek maps that are fun to look at and decipher.
http://www.bonap.org/2008_Soil/SoilTypesRelatedMaps.html

 

[EarthySpirit]

Its the natural pH of the soil. If I got where you are correct, you are in one of the largest contiguous areas of limestone soil in the world.
http://www.bonap.org/2008_Soil/pH20110321.png

Here are some other soil geek maps that are fun to look at and decipher.
http://www.bonap.org/2008_Soil/SoilTypesRelatedMaps.html

OH, thats cool. WEll, I guess I'm very fortunate!!! LOL. Thanks Dan

 

[EarthySpirit]

I'd use winter rye over winter wheat. It will continue to grow longer. If you want to have something for the late season, you could add 1 to 2 lbs/ac PTT but go light on it. Having late season food for attraction is a reasonable goal.

If you are just starting, I'd take it one step at a time. Get your perennial clover established this year. See how deer respond. The clover will last for many years. Each time the winter rye hits a foot or so, mow it back to 6"-8". This will release the clover. Think about adding some acreage with late season food to augment the clover nest year.

Thanks,

Jack

Thanks. What is PTT?

 

[chucker66]

I'd use winter rye over winter wheat. It will continue to grow longer. If you want to have something for the late season, you could add 1 to 2 lbs/ac PTT but go light on it. Having late season food for attraction is a reasonable goal.

If you are just starting, I'd take it one step at a time. Get your perennial clover established this year. See how deer respond. The clover will last for many years. Each time the winter rye hits a foot or so, mow it back to 6"-8". This will release the clover. Think about adding some acreage with late season food to augment the clover nest year.

Thanks,

Jack

Thanks. What is PTT?

Purple top turnip.

Chuck

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

 

[yoderjac]

Thanks. What is PTT?

Sorry, I should have been more clear. Chuck is correct. Turnips are in the brassica family. They have large leaves and can shade out companion crops, so when used in a mix, they must be used sparingly. But as I say, I'd keep it simple for the first year and see how deer react.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Weezy]

saw

 

[EarthySpirit]

With all of your input I have decided to let these new bare-soil plots green up, then gly when soil temps are warm enough to plant the buckwheat. Then in mid-august, which will probably be 90 days after buckwheat plant, I will roll down the buckwheat and overseed with ladino clover and nurse crop of WR.

I have two questions at this point: Do I need to gly the buckwheat first, or will it be petered out by then?

The second question relates to advice given to me by a local wildlife biologist. Here is what he emailed me. It is a direct quote:

"Right now is an excellent time to overseed clover especially on bare ground. I would go ahead and overseed the areas with clover (3 pounds/acre of ladino) and possibly some oats (about 30 pounds/acre) as a nurse crop. The seed wil frost heave into the soil and germinate as soon as the soil temperature is warm enough. Once the clover is established I wouldn't worry about doing anything different this fall. When the clover begins to get choked out by grasses in a couple years then I would re-start the plot with winter wheat."

My concern with this advice is that as you all have taught me, I worry about the slow growth of clover this point in time and the potential for weeds to take over, but wanted everyone's take on this. Because he is a wildlife biologist I didn't want to dismiss his advice, but at the same time I don't want to discard the good advice you all have been giving me. thanks guys!

Patrick

 

[bigbendmarine]

Here are some other soil geek maps that are fun to look at and decipher.
http://www.bonap.org/2008_Soil/SoilTypesRelatedMaps.html

AWESOME share, Farmer Dan! Just a few seconds looking at the various charts was fascinating and if that makes me a geek so be it. Can't wait to dig a bit deeper looking at them when I have more time.

 

[yoderjac]

Patrick,

You don't need to spray the buckwheat with gly to kill the buckwheat. The decision whether to spray or not should be made when the buckwheat peters out and goes to seed. If the buckwheat smothered the weeds and the field is pretty clean you don't have to spray. However, if there are green weeds in the field, the best practice is to spray to start with a weed free field. A couple notes. You can broadcast seed first, then roll the buckwheat and then spray. Seed is not affected by glyphosate. Don't be surprised if you get a volunteer crop of buckwheat in your fall crop. For most folks this is not a problem. It is generally thin enough that it won't smother your fall plant and it is frost sensitive. It is a great early season attractant and any not eaten by deer will be killed by the first frost to make room for your WR/clover. In some cases when folks have very fertile soils, a volunteer crop of buckwheat can smother your fall plant. With good timing, even these folks can do it by planting close enough to the first frost.

As for frost seeding, it can be an effective technique. The approach is to broadcast tiny clover seed when your daytime temperatures are warm enough to thaw the top inch of soil and nighttime temperatures are cold enough to freeze it. This causes heaving which sucks the seed to the right level for germination.

I find this technique better for rejuvenating clover fields or filling in bare spots after it is established. The further south you go, generally the more of an issue competition is from summer weeds. Frost seeding is an inexpensive way to seed clover but it is not as effective for establishing a perennial clover plot as planting in the fall with a winter rye nurse crop. Folks further north with less competition from summer weeds may be able to get cleaner plots using frost seeding than folks in the south. The nice thing about frost seeding is that it does not negatively impact your existing plot. So, if you tried to establish clover and were 70% successful, frost seeding early the following spring can be very helpful.

Clover gets the best jump on summer weeds when it is planted in the fall and germinates. I rarely get much if any growth in clover the fall I plant it. The WR is the attractant. However, the following spring it gets a good head start on weed competition.

There is nothing wrong with frost seeding. You just need to decided if it is the right tool for your situation.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[FarmerDan]

The second question relates to advice given to me by a local wildlife biologist. Here is what he emailed me. It is a direct quote:

"Right now is an excellent time to overseed clover especially on bare ground. I would go ahead and overseed the areas with clover (3 pounds/acre of ladino) and possibly some oats (about 30 pounds/acre) as a nurse crop. The seed wil frost heave into the soil and germinate as soon as the soil temperature is warm enough. Once the clover is established I wouldn't worry about doing anything different this fall. When the clover begins to get choked out by grasses in a couple years then I would re-start the plot with winter wheat."

My concern with this advice is that as you all have taught me, I worry about the slow growth of clover this point in time and the potential for weeds to take over, but wanted everyone's take on this. Because he is a wildlife biologist I didn't want to dismiss his advice, but at the same time I don't want to discard the good advice you all have been giving me. thanks guys!

Patrick

Don't dismiss the advice of the wildlife biologist! And don't take what your wee here as the best advice! It seems to me the difference is one of expectations. The wildlife biologist knows his advice is sound so far as getting something growing. Will it rise to the lofty standards "we" set here? Probably not. Will it change the outcome of your experience? I will leave that for you to answer.

Overseeding clover. That can be interpreted two ways. One is to seed into another crop. Another is to apply more seed than you might at first expect would be necessary. I've read that 30% - 50% of broadcast seed will not germinate. Maybe frost seeding lowers the percentage but the problem doesn't go away! And the part about the oats is suspicious. I never had much luck leaving oats on top of the ground. But, does it change your hunting success? Hmmm....