New Plot question

[EarthySpirit]

I purchased some land May of 2016, and all the fields have been left fallow for several years and have all grown up in a multitude of natural early succession growth. I want to plow these areas for planting in spring 2018 and wanted to start planning. Is there an option for preparing these fields without having to use herbacide? I'm thinking of planting clover and Brassicas, possibly soy beans in one of them. One person suggested using winter rye which serves as a natural herbacide, using it in early March ( I live in Northern KY), then mow it in May, till it and plant my clover. But I wasn't sure about this. Any ideas? Or do I just need to use herbacide to make sure I kill all the natural growth from coming up? Thanks for any help you offer.

 

[bbcoach]

Some will say one way others another but I prefer herbicide (glyphosate). A good weed control will help clover get off to a Great start. With soybeans, a warm season crop, a good burn down and planting in the spring should get the beans up and covering any unwanted grasses and broad leafs. Clover and brassicas should be planted in the fall, IMO. Brassicas are a cool weather crop and clover does best, planted in the fall. Clover with a cover crop of Winter Rye or Winter wheat will feed wildlife during the fall and winter and give the clover a good start to grow a strong root system and outcompete the weeds in the spring. First thing to do is take soil samples ASAP and amend the soil with the recommended lime now. Fertilizer can be applied at planting. Soybeans can be planted in the spring but personally I would recommend brassicas and clover next fall. Good luck.

 

[yoderjac]

Before you get out the plow, google Ray the Soil Guy and watch some of his videos. There may be better ways to deal with things. If I had to pick either a bushhog and glyphosate or a plow, in most cases I'd choose the bushhog and gly. I'd also take a look at Crimson N Camo's throw and grow treads on here. He has taken many of the principles that Ray describes for farmers and demonstrates techniques that the food plotter can use with limited equipment. Clover and brassica certainly don't require tillage.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[JFK52]

I put several smaller food plots back into production this season. I started by mowing them and then spraying them with gly last year. This year they were sprayed with gly and then disked two or three times. They needed that much disking to break up the clumps of fallow soil. I tried to cross hatch the disking if there was room. This preparation and the fact that two of my plantings had rain with hours of being harrow dragged and rolled down produced great results. My early plots of RR eagle soy beans that were sprayed with gly twice while growing to keep the weed control going active during the growing season. The later plots of dwarf Essex rape seed and winter rye were planted towards the end of the weed growing season. They did great.
I really believe that the more prep time you put into your plots the better the chances you have of success.

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

If your going to plant soybeans Id spray without a doubt. If you are thinking of doing a fall clover planting and would like to stay away from herbicide id TNM sorghum sudan grass mixed with buck wheat when soil is above 60 next spring. I would then TNM your cereal/clover mix around labor day followed by frost seeding of clover in Feb/Mar. I would assume your plot is going to be weedy the following summer but 2-3 mowings over the summer months and a second frost seeding the following winter should produce a great plot. Don't get to caught up on weeds in your clover deer will eat them and they can be mowed off. Soybeans are a different story.

 

[chucker66]

Not sure why you don't want to use Gly but I suppose herbicide does get a bad rap. For the most part, you will probably only need to use it once if you look at doing the LC rotation. I killed everything off in my plots, then went with Winter Rye, clover, peas, radishes and oats the first year in late July. I would think you could still do this in Kentucky but not sure. I had Rye in early spring and it grew all summer, while underneath the clover was growing too. Then when the Rye was ripe, I planted Brassicas and rolled the Rye. Now this fall I have Rye, Brassicas and clover thick and lush with a few weeds. Note that the deer like weeds too. I have not sprayed again, just continue to have something that I want growing all year and that suppresses the weeds. Yoderjac has some good advice, look over at what CrimsonCamo has going, some great stuff for us small plotters . Also, I NEVER tilled these plots.

Chuck

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

If I want to draw in as many deer as possible during the hunting season I need standing soybeans. And unfortunately soybeans require tillage since I don't have a no-till drill and they also require spraying with round-up. I only have a couple acres to mess around with food plots, so I fertilize and spray for maximum yield. I agree that going the no-till route might be beneficial for my soil, but at this point it's not an option for me since I have no way to get them in the soil without tillage.

When my tractor broke down one year around planting time I had to skip the soybeans and go with a no-till brassica mix instead. I simply sprayed my oat cover crop and broadcast the brassica seed, then I fertilized and cultipacked. The plot did great with that technique despite the heavy oat thatch that was leftover. They weren't hit nearly as hard as soybeans typically are, but they still drew in the deer better than if it was just fallow for that year.

You definitely have a number of options and perhaps you could try a few different plans to see what works best on your land. Good luck-

 

[yoderjac]

If I want to draw in as many deer as possible during the hunting season I need standing soybeans. And unfortunately soybeans require tillage since I don't have a no-till drill and they also require spraying with round-up. I only have a couple acres to mess around with food plots, so I fertilize and spray for maximum yield. I agree that going the no-till route might be beneficial for my soil, but at this point it's not an option for me since I have no way to get them in the soil without tillage.

When my tractor broke down one year around planting time I had to skip the soybeans and go with a no-till brassica mix instead. I simply sprayed my oat cover crop and broadcast the brassica seed, then I fertilized and cultipacked. The plot did great with that technique despite the heavy oat thatch that was leftover. They weren't hit nearly as hard as soybeans typically are, but they still drew in the deer better than if it was just fallow for that year.

You definitely have a number of options and perhaps you could try a few different plans to see what works best on your land. Good luck-

Even soybeans and corn only require about an inch or so of tillage in most cases.

 

[Peplin Creek]

Jack makes a good point about beans only needed an inch or so. This can be said about pretty much any seed honestly some needing to be much shallower. I use and atv for most of my work. I have a small disk and a drag. It works up the top inch of soil and sometimes given conditions that’s about all I can work up. When using herbicides and working the top inch, it cuts down on weeds and bring unwanted seeds to the soils surface.

I hope to someday get a small tractor and no till drill. Seems like it’s a great option long term to improving soil.

 

[EarthySpirit]

Not sure why you don't want to use Gly but I suppose herbicide does get a bad rap. For the most part, you will probably only need to use it once if you look at doing the LC rotation. I killed everything off in my plots, then went with Winter Rye, clover, peas, radishes and oats the first year in late July. I would think you could still do this in Kentucky but not sure. I had Rye in early spring and it grew all summer, while underneath the clover was growing too. Then when the Rye was ripe, I planted Brassicas and rolled the Rye. Now this fall I have Rye, Brassicas and clover thick and lush with a few weeds. Note that the deer like weeds too. I have not sprayed again, just continue to have something that I want growing all year and that suppresses the weeds. Yoderjac has some good advice, look over at what CrimsonCamo has going, some great stuff for us small plotters . Also, I NEVER tilled these plots.

Chuck

Just trying to save money since GLY is expensive. But I may end up using it based on suggestions here. I'm new at all of this and I very much appreciate the advice from everyone. Sounds like there are so many options that it makes my head spin. Whew. As Ben said, I may try different options in different spots.

 

[chucker66]

Believe me I understand about the expense, but that's what so nice about this site. You find out about stuff that's pretty cheap. You can get a gallon of Compare n Save Concentrate Weed Killer which is 41% Glysophate for $21 on Amazon vs Round up which is about $80 per gallon and its the same stuff basically. I mix mine at 2 or 3 oz per gallon and that kills weeds pretty well. Even at 3 oz per gallon that's 42 gallons of weed killer. That will get you a long ways. I bought one gallon 2 years ago and still have a lot left. Way cheaper that a tractor and a disc haha.

Chuck

 

[EarthySpirit]

Believe me I understand about the expense, but that's what so nice about this site. You find out about stuff that's pretty cheap. You can get a gallon of Compare n Save Concentrate Weed Killer which is 41% Glysophate for $21 on Amazon vs Round up which is about $80 per gallon and its the same stuff basically. I mix mine at 2 or 3 oz per gallon and that kills weeds pretty well. Even at 3 oz per gallon that's 42 gallons of weed killer. That will get you a long ways. I bought one gallon 2 years ago and still have a lot left. Way cheaper that a tractor and a disc haha.

Chuck

OH wow!!. Thanks Chuck! I did not realize it could be obtained and used so cheaply! This is making me think I need to go the Gly route since it is much faster. I'm so new to all this stuff. This info is so helpful!!! I'm really glad I ran across this site.

 

[bbcoach]

I buy generic 41% glyphosate from numerous farm suppliers and never spend over $40 for 2 1/2 gallon. If you can catch it on sale, normally around $32-$35 per jug. Agri supply and Theissen's are a couple of suppliers. Tractor supply has it also but they are normally higher. Check E-bay also, if you can find a supplier willing to ship free, prices are normally pretty good. 2 ounces of 41% glyphosate per gallon will give you a great burndown.

 

[EarthySpirit]

If your going to plant soybeans Id spray without a doubt. If you are thinking of doing a fall clover planting and would like to stay away from herbicide id TNM sorghum sudan grass mixed with buck wheat when soil is above 60 next spring. I would then TNM your cereal/clover mix around labor day followed by frost seeding of clover in Feb/Mar. I would assume your plot is going to be weedy the following summer but 2-3 mowings over the summer months and a second frost seeding the following winter should produce a great plot. Don't get to caught up on weeds in your clover deer will eat them and they can be mowed off. Soybeans are a different story.

Thanks. What is TNM?

 

[jackpine]

Thanks. What is TNM?

Throw and Mow

Sent from my XT901 using Tapatalk

 

[j-bird]

Keep in mind if you have decent deer numbers you will have to either protect the soybeans or grow enough of them to grow faster than the deer can eat them! I would consider planting everything you want in plots in soybeans the first year. First of all this gives you more ground to out grow what the deer will eat. Secondly it is a great way to control weeds in prep for brassica or clover plots in the fall as well. And yes - round-up ready soybeans do not need "round-up" generic glyphosate can be used safely for a significant cost savings.

Also keep in mind fallow fields often produce a lot of summer forage and winter browse as well depending on what is growing in them. As such, you may want to take a serious inventory of what is growing in those areas currently and you may find that you may be better served not returning them entirely to plots.

Also consider planting in long winding plots and not typical shapes.....deer like the "edge" and long, narrow, winding plots tend to make the deer feel safer and as such they will use them more. You can also have them wind past stand locations where your access can be optimized as well.

Lots of folks see a fallow filed and think they have to restore it to it's fullest extent.....well we are not production farmers so our goals and as a result our methods and tactics can be a bit different. Just some things to consider if you haven't already.

 

[Bill]

I buy generic 41% glyphosate from numerous farm suppliers and never spend over $40 for 2 1/2 gallon. If you can catch it on sale, normally around $32-$35 per jug. Agri supply and Theissen's are a couple of suppliers. Tractor supply has it also but they are normally higher. Check E-bay also, if you can find a supplier willing to ship free, prices are normally pretty good. 2 ounces of 41% glyphosate per gallon will give you a great burndown.

Tractor supply had a Father's Day sale this spring. $25 for 2.5 gallons. I stocked up..

 

[EarthySpirit]

I put several smaller food plots back into production this season. I started by mowing them and then spraying them with gly last year. This year they were sprayed with gly and then disked two or three times. They needed that much disking to break up the clumps of fallow soil. I tried to cross hatch the disking if there was room. This preparation and the fact that two of my plantings had rain with hours of being harrow dragged and rolled down produced great results. My early plots of RR eagle soy beans that were sprayed with gly twice while growing to keep the weed control going active during the growing season. The later plots of dwarf Essex rape seed and winter rye were planted towards the end of the weed growing season. They did great.
I really believe that the more prep time you put into your plots the better the chances you have of success.

Thanks JFK, what time of the year did you put gly on them, and what would that translate into in N KY? Thanks for your help. Do I understand some to say on here, to put gly on it in the spring when weeds start to emerge, then disk it up, then wait till August to plant clover and brassica?

 

[chucker66]

How big are the fields? I am thinking about an acre or 2 but you might have a bigger area.

Chuck

 

[yoderjac]

Just trying to save money since GLY is expensive. But I may end up using it based on suggestions here. I'm new at all of this and I very much appreciate the advice from everyone. Sounds like there are so many options that it makes my head spin. Whew. As Ben said, I may try different options in different spots.

The last time I bought gly, I paid $9/gal. I get more benefit per $ from using gly than about any other component that goes into my food plots. If weeds are not controlled, the cost of seed is often wasted. There are many ways t control competition and gly is only one. There are costs, risks, and benefits to all of them. On a cost/risk/benefit basis, for those who are not in an area where gly-resistance is an issue, I find the case for gly as a weed control technique quite compelling.

Thanks,

Jack