Illinois joins the crossbow list

[bueller]

https://www.dnr.illinois.gov/news/P...-to-Use-Crossbows-During-Archery-Seasons.aspx

SPRINGFIELD, IL – Hunters in Illinois may use crossbows during archery hunting seasons, including the Illinois Archery Deer Season and the Illinois Fall Turkey Archery Season beginning on Oct. 1.

Governor Bruce Rauner signed into law House Bill 2893, which amended the Illinois Wildlife Code to repeal restrictions on the use of crossbows during archery hunting seasons in Illinois.

Illinois law previously allowed the use of crossbows for archery hunting by persons age 62 or older, and those persons with disabilities who qualified for a crossbow permit issued by the Illinois Department of Natural Resources (IDNR). In addition, the previous law allowed certain youth hunters to use crossbows, and allowed all archery hunters to use crossbows beginning the Monday after the second firearm deer season.

The 2017-18 season dates for archery deer and fall turkey archery hunting in Illinois are Oct. 1, 2017 through Jan. 14, 2018. Archery seasons will be closed Nov. 17-19 and Nov. 30-Dec. 3 during the Firearm Deer Season in those counties open to firearm deer hunting.

 

[Tap]

https://www.dnr.illinois.gov/news/P...-to-Use-Crossbows-During-Archery-Seasons.aspx

SPRINGFIELD, IL – Hunters in Illinois may use crossbows during archery hunting seasons, including the Illinois Archery Deer Season and the Illinois Fall Turkey Archery Season beginning on Oct. 1.

If crossbows are legalized during "bow season", then it's no longer bow season. It's just deer season with restrictions on firearms, but it ain't bow season any longer.
Just sayin'...

 

[JFK52]

TAP, I do not understand your reply. Are you saying that a crossbow is not a bow? Or that it is a firearm? Or that a person who hunts with a crossbow during the "bow season" is less of a bow hunter than hunters who use stand up bows because of their choice of equipment? Or a hunter who uses a crossbow is not even a bow hunter?
Please explain further to a 65 year old guy who has been bow hunting for 53 years and now has to use a crossbow because of severe arthritis in both hands. I consider myself a bow hunter. I thank the Good Lord every day that I can still get out to hunt with my crossbow.

 

[chickenlittle]

This is where I would normally say "It ain't really Archery if you have training wheels on your bow so what does it matter if it is a vertical or cross orientation?" But i get tired of these fights so I won't bother today.

 

[yoderjac]

If crossbows are legalized during "bow season", then it's no longer bow season. It's just deer season with restrictions on firearms, but it ain't bow season any longer.
Just sayin'...

Nope. We went through this in VA a few years back. There are a few bumps in the road at first. You get gun hunters wanting to extend their season and thinking a crossbow is like a gun. The down side is a slightly more crowded woods during bow season but that is largely offset by our declining hunter population based on demographics. The second more important downside is a couple years of more wounding deer simply because some folks think crossbows are like guns.

Crossbows are short range tools just like compound bows. They have no more effective range for deer than compound bows. You still need to get up close and personal with the game. You still need to use the same shot selection options as a compound bow. There are two significant differences when it comes to harvest. First, you don't need to draw in the presence of game. This can be a big challenge when hunting with a compound. Second, a compound requires your body to enforce shooting form which requires a lot of practice. You must ensure your body does everything the same with each shot from the waist up. A crossbow stalk and rail enforce form. While I cross bow does require practice, it does not require the same amount of practice or fitness as a compound.

The upside to crossbows is hunter recruitment and retention. First, crossbows are a great way to introduce kids into bowhunting. A mentor can cock a crossbow (or a kid can use a crank or other device) and a kid can effectively kill a deer long before he/she can handle enough poundage to hunt with a compound. They can develop skills that allow them to be close to game without spooking it. Once bitten by the up close and personal bug, many will want to increase there challenge to a compound bow when ready or even a stick bow. This also applies to bringing adults into the sport. On the back end, I know a crossbow will allow me to bowhunt for many more years than I will be comfortable hunting with a compound bow. While I can still use a compound, I won't use it under some conditions where I don't feel I can ethically use it. We all have different ethics, and I'm very adverse to not recovering a deer. There are times when it is cold or my arthritis is acting up where I simply don't feel comfortable with my compound. Out comes my crossbow.

We had all the same arguments in VA when crossbows came in. None turned out to be true. Bow season harvests had no significant impact over time. Of course, history repeats itself. I remember all the same arguments when folks complained how those compound bows were going to ruin bowhunting forever and that recurves were the only real bows. Of course they themselves were looked down on by longbow purists... The saga continues.

All in all, crossbows have had a positive impact in VA in my opinion.

 

[Tap]

TAP, I do not understand your reply. Are you saying that a crossbow is not a bow? Or that it is a firearm? Or that a person who hunts with a crossbow during the "bow season" is less of a bow hunter than hunters who use stand up bows because of their choice of equipment? Or a hunter who uses a crossbow is not even a bow hunter?
Please explain further to a 65 year old guy who has been bow hunting for 53 years and now has to use a crossbow because of severe arthritis in both hands. I consider myself a bow hunter. I thank the Good Lord every day that I can still get out to hunt with my crossbow.

Crossbows are not bows. They may be a short(er) range weapon than a firearm, but just because they shoot a stick doesn't make them a bow. There are now air guns that shoot sticks. Would you call those devices a "bow"?
A bow, whether a traditional bow or a compound, is hand drawn and hand held and neither have a stock or a trigger attached to them.
When non-bow equipment is legalized for general use in bow season. Then by default, it is no longer bow season.
I don't say that in order to diminish or insult any one's ethics or abilities. I simply state a fact that few states still have a "bow" season. Iowa is still one such state. In fact, you cannot use a bow in gun season in Iowa.

Whether crossbow inclusion in archery season is good for license revenue, hunter recruitment or whatever, is a different discussion that my original point...xbows aren't bows.
Pa's bow season was killed several years ago
Our "bow" season now includes in-lines, rifles and yes, crossbows.
I may be able to still hunt with my recurve during October and November but when all weapons have been legalized, it's no longer archery season.
Explain to me where I'm incorrect.

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[yoderjac]

Crossbows are not bows. They may be a short(er) range weapon than a firearm, but just because they shoot a stick doesn't make them a bow. There are now air guns that shoot sticks. Would you call those devices a "bow"?
A bow, whether a traditional bow or a compound, is hand drawn and hand held and neither have a stock or a trigger attached to them.
When non-bow equipment is legalized for general use in bow season. Then by default, it is no longer bow season.
I don't say that in order to diminish or insult any one's ethics or abilities. I simply state a fact that few states still have a "bow" season. Iowa is still one such state. In fact, you cannot use a bow in gun season in Iowa.

Whether crossbow inclusion in archery season is good for license revenue, hunter recruitment or whatever, is a different discussion that my original point...xbows aren't bows.
Pa's bow season was killed several years ago
Our "bow" season now includes in-lines, rifles and yes, crossbows.
I may be able to still hunt with my recurve during October and November but when all weapons have been legalized, it's no longer archery season.
Explain to me where I'm incorrect.

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So, what is a bow? Let's look at the historical origins in the context of a weapon:

"strung, elastic weapon for shooting arrows," Old English boga "archery bow; anything bent or arched, an arch, a rainbow," from Proto-Germanic *bugon (source also of Old Norse bogi, Old Frisian boga, Dutch boog, German Bogen "bow"), from PIE root *bheug- "to bend," with derivatives referring to bent, pliable, or curved objects. The sense of "a looped knot," especially an ornamental one, is from 1540s. The musician's bow (1570s) formerly was curved like the archer's.

The former popularity of the longbow as a characteristic English weapon is attested in expressions such as bow-legged; to have the bent of (one's) bow "know one's intentions or inclinations" (1560s), to shoot in (another's) bow "practice an art other than one's own;" bow-hand "the left hand," hence "on the wrong side, inaccurately;" have two strings to (one's) bow "have more than one means to accomplish something;" draw the long bow "exaggerate, lie."

'Bow' then really refers to how the energy is stored, not how it is released. When a string is used to bend limbs and store energy, you have a bow. Yes, there are different types of bows that have different characteristics but strings used to store energy by bending limbs is the common factor. Archery comes from the same basic origin an arch or bend. Crossbows have are perfectly placed in "archery" or "bow" season. Air guns on the other hand do not use a string to store energy in limbs and are not bows.

Back when a bow was a weapon of war, those who fired long bows were referred to as archers in the military. When a "better" weapon was designed, the crossbow, those who fired crossbows were referred to as archers in the military.

Thanks,

Jack

P.S. Tap, when crossbows came to VA, my gut reaction was much like yours. It took me quite time to change my mind.

 

[Tap]

Bow season is dead. I miss it.

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[bueller]

Love them or hate them, crossbows are here and likely here to stay.

Purpose of this thread was simply to disseminate information about a last minute change to the IL regs that many may not have known about. I know when I first heard about it a week or so back I thought it was only a rumor, not the law.

 

[chickenlittle]

Yeah, been a long time since PA's bow hunters only complaint was small game hunters ruining bow season. Now everyone gets to ruin bow season. Hopefully the next thing to ruin bow season will be Sunday hunting.

 

[jray57]

I don't care what you hunt with on your property. Can I get the same respect? Or do you think I am going to kill YOUR deer on my property with my "crossgun" during archery season.

 

[SIL hunter]

I'm from IL and my 2 cents is this, you could already use a xbow if you were under 16, over 65 or had a disability, and just a couple years ago they let everyone use one after our 2nd gun season(ended the sunday after thanksgiving) so they didn't just open xbow just expanded it a little. I know a few people that have bought them and have heard there is a lot of back orders to get them. I also hunted some public ground Sunday morning and saw 3 people coming out of the woods with them, they were all older gentleman so if this gets them back out hunting good for them. The one problem I saw was none of them had a climber, so if people think they can just go sit somewhere and are going to be able to shoot anything that comes by I think they will be very disappointed. I think this will be a short lived fad and there will be some good deals on xbow in a few years after they figure out you still need to get them close to shoot.

 

[yoderjac]

Yeah, been a long time since PA's bow hunters only complaint was small game hunters ruining bow season. Now everyone gets to ruin bow season. Hopefully the next thing to ruin bow season will be Sunday hunting.

That followed crossbows by a few years here in VA. I generally don't hunt Sundays but many do. It only applies to private land so far.

 

[yoderjac]

I don't care what you hunt with on your property. Can I get the same respect? Or do you think I am going to kill YOUR deer on my property with my "crossgun" during archery season.

I think I was guilty of a little of that when they first came to VA. As a compound hunter I realized how many more deer I could have killed if I did not have to draw on them. My first thought was that the woods would be packed with gun hunters shooting or wounding a lot of deer. I was somewhat selfish since I pretty much enjoyed the woods all to myself during archery season and was regularly bumped by hunters during firearm season. I felt like I lost something.

What I didn't realize that while in the hands of a skilled compound bow hunter a crossbow could kill many more deer, it did not. Most deer that come within range of a bowhunter and present a shot opportunity and not killed simply because the bowhunter chooses not to shoot them. Quite often I found myself drawing on a deer and simply whispering "bang" at the moment of truth and then letting down just for the practice. And gun hunters that had not developed the close encounters skills would quickly get frustrated. And that with the change in demographics, dwindling hunter numbers would outweigh any contribution to pressure crossbows would add.

My views on the importance of my individual experience compared to bringing kids and new folks into the sport were already changing before we got crossbows here in VA. I had to own up to my own selfishness. Perhaps it was only after I saw that crossbows weren't really hurting my self-interest that I was able to drop my defensiveness and see my selfishness. That is not to say that all who oppose the use of crossbows during archery season are being selfish. That is far from the truth, but for me, at the time there clearly was a selfishness component.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[j-bird]

Indiana went thru this just a few years ago. My personal opinion is that these moves are about one thing at the core and it has NOTHING to do with a true NEED.

#1 - x-bows are included to expand the sale of archery license sales and put more money into the DNR = $$$.
#2 - x-bows are included because political pressure to reduce deer numbers = $$$$
#3 - x-bows are included to drive retail sales = $$$

What I didn't, haven't, and won't see and I doubt IL will either is a true NEED for their inclusion. No data or science was offered here that demonstrated a true NEED to include x-bows. The DNR will spin it however they want....the fact is it's about $$$$$$. $ for the DNR, $ for the politicians, $ for retailers and large companies. It isn't about the deer or hunters.....the DNR will claim they are "increasing opportunities" and that is total BS. By "opportunities" they mean more dollars directly and in-directly for everyone involved.....except hunters.

Now - do I have a x-bow....YES. They are great for kids or multiple hunters to use. They require less practice and less physical strength. Have some of their abilities been over stated and stretched - I'm sure it has. It's a weapon to kill deer and like any weapon it has it's limitations as well.

The key is that the DNR is going to present this as an "opportunity" and hunters will flock to it. They won't pause to read between the lines, they won't stop to see if there is a downside.....until it's too late. The thing is that is the DNR in tune enough with their management practices to understand the true impact of them on the deer herd. I know in IN they had no clue.....and they really didn't even care. Increasing weapons choices by DNR's is simply another tool to further destroy our deer herds and in general hunters as a whole refuse to see it for what it is.....because it's the other guys fault. Hunters are destroying the deer herds because the DNR's are letting us....even promoting us to do so. I have seen it here. First it was pistol cartridge rifles, then X-bows, then high powered rifles......all the while the deer herd gets smaller and smaller and smaller and the management doesn't change!

An open door is an opportunity.....for somebody....no necessarily for you!

 

[yoderjac]

Indiana went thru this just a few years ago. My personal opinion is that these moves are about one thing at the core and it has NOTHING to do with a true NEED.

#1 - x-bows are included to expand the sale of archery license sales and put more money into the DNR = $$$.
#2 - x-bows are included because political pressure to reduce deer numbers = $$$$
#3 - x-bows are included to drive retail sales = $$$

What I didn't, haven't, and won't see and I doubt IL will either is a true NEED for their inclusion. No data or science was offered here that demonstrated a true NEED to include x-bows. The DNR will spin it however they want....the fact is it's about $$$$$$. $ for the DNR, $ for the politicians, $ for retailers and large companies. It isn't about the deer or hunters.....the DNR will claim they are "increasing opportunities" and that is total BS. By "opportunities" they mean more dollars directly and in-directly for everyone involved.....except hunters.

Now - do I have a x-bow....YES. They are great for kids or multiple hunters to use. They require less practice and less physical strength. Have some of their abilities been over stated and stretched - I'm sure it has. It's a weapon to kill deer and like any weapon it has it's limitations as well.

The key is that the DNR is going to present this as an "opportunity" and hunters will flock to it. They won't pause to read between the lines, they won't stop to see if there is a downside.....until it's too late. The thing is that is the DNR in tune enough with their management practices to understand the true impact of them on the deer herd. I know in IN they had no clue.....and they really didn't even care. Increasing weapons choices by DNR's is simply another tool to further destroy our deer herds and in general hunters as a whole refuse to see it for what it is.....because it's the other guys fault. Hunters are destroying the deer herds because the DNR's are letting us....even promoting us to do so. I have seen it here. First it was pistol cartridge rifles, then X-bows, then high powered rifles......all the while the deer herd gets smaller and smaller and smaller and the management doesn't change!

An open door is an opportunity.....for somebody....no necessarily for you!

I wonder if that is upside down? Is there a need for bowhunting at all? In our state, bow harvests are a fraction of firearm harvests, so from a population control standpoint, it would be hard to make a case except in urban/suburban areas where firearms are not permitted.

The other way to look at it is this: Provide as much recreational opportunity for folks which whatever tools that our out there. Then, begin restricting tools, seasons, and such as needed to achieve game management goals, protect the resource, and promote safety.

Perhaps the question should not be "Are they needed?" but more one of "Are they likely to cause harm?". While some of the reasons you cite, especially economic, are clearly true, I think one of the big reasons that more and more states are including crossbows is because there seems to be no major controversy in the early adopting states, and no significant negative impacts on the resource quite a few years after they were adopted.

I also wonder if we are conflating two things, deer herd number goals, and methods of harvest. I don't know about other states but we have bag limits. They and seasons are the primary means of achieving herd number goals. Here, simply changing the number of doe days during firearm season in a particular county has way more impact on population than all kinds of bow hunting in the county.

One can disagree with the management goals of their state game agency and be agnostic toward the method of harvest.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Booner21]

I am from IL and bought one for my 5 year old to get used to shooting the other alternative is a slug gun which he is a long way away from handling. I bought a 250 dollar centerpoint sniper to try out because of the ar style stock that would allow shorter LOP. First two shots from the crossbow at 40yds had fletchings touching.

0 desire to shoot one until I am unable to pull the minimum weight. It won't change the pressure on my farm until the kid feels like going. To each their own. As said before two huge advantages not having to draw and hold or plan the draw and the form component

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[H20fwler]

Over thirty years ago when Ohio went crossbow legal for archery bow hunters complained and cried just like the new legal states are....didn't change our hunting one bit and really isn't any big advantage, compound hunters still kill lots of deer here.

 

[Bill]

Yeah, been a long time since PA's bow hunters only complaint was small game hunters ruining bow season. Now everyone gets to ruin bow season. Hopefully the next thing to ruin bow season will be Sunday hunting.

That's the one I don't get. Do the deer actually know it's Sunday???

 

[yoderjac]

That's the one I don't get. Do the deer actually know it's Sunday???

Nope, but spouses do!