Field grown trees anyone?

[OakSeeds]

OakSeeds - how are you direct seeding? I see buckets or pots around most of your trees...

Excellent question ... and a big secret to growing nice sized trees in the shortest period of time. I believe the two most important dimensions of getting small trees up and running include a.) eliminating competition - see the mulch around the tree, and b.) providing suffi9cient moisture during the first 2-3 years ... aha, the value of the landscape pot. Studies at Kansas State U. demonstrated that grass growing under an oak tree could/did cut it's growth rate ny 1/2 to 2/3. Eliminating competition is easy - spray with gly before planting and MULCH (I like wood chips - I get them free). Sometimes I place landscape fabric under the mulch (wood or stone mulch). Here's how I answered this question when ask by a nice person in TX some time ago.

Originally Posted by OakSeeds

Even though I am planting a small acorn, I prepare a "planting hole" that is 2-3 feet in diameter and 12-18 inches deep. I plant the acorn (lay it on it's side so the radical grows downward) about 3-4 inches deep (it will be only a couple inches under the soil after moisture compacts the loose soil in the planting hole). I cover the acorn with a piece of hardware cloth or other piece of metal to keep squirrels/other rodents from eating the acorn. I take a 3-gal black plastic landscape pot and cut the bottom out of it; then, I place the pot over the planted acorn and push it down 2-4 inches into the loose soil. The landscape pot serves 3 important purposes; first, it helps to keep rodents and rabbits away from the newly planted acorn or newly growing seedling. Second, the black plastic absorbs sunlight and gives me a greenhouse effect in the early spring with cool days. 3rd, the pot makes watering the tree very efficient with no runoff; all the water goes directly down to the root zone. Finally, I almost always place a cage over the newly planted tree; if you don't, it is very likely deer will browse the central leader off them (make bushes of you tree). I always give direct seeded acorns a good watering when I plant them to ensure the radical has good contact with the soil and that it has the moisture necessary to promote growth. Good luck; contact me if I can be of help in any way.
Thank you very much!!
QUOTE=Tree]I enjoy your threads on direct seeding oaks very much
What is your method of direct seeding white oak acorns in the fall?
Thank you very much..... - Tyler Texas

I removed the person's name simnce I had not secured permission to post his post.

 

[Catscratch]

The hardware cloth goes under the soil or on top of the soil? Do you remove it shortly after germination so that the tree doesn't grow through it and eventually get choked?
Thanks for the quick and detailed reply!

 

[yoderjac]

And that holds true regardless of whether one is direct seeding, using root pruning pots, or some other method. Removing competition for 5' around the tree improves growth significantly. I used to use mulch around my trees but I had some issues with voles being attracted, nesting in the mulch, and munching on roots. I have since taken a lesson from the apple guys who had issues with mice and mulch. I now use landscape cloth covered with #57 quarry stone. It doesn't break down like mulch and discourages rodents. There are some who suggest there may be heat issues with using stone, but I have not experienced that in my area.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[OakSeeds]

Hey fellas ... the black pot trick works great for tomatoes too.

 

[OakSeeds]

Here are photos of a 2 year plus chestnut tree - in a pot - and the size, shape and caliper of the tree. the last photo shows a 3yr old chestnut with gravel mulch. I still like wood better since it absorbs/retains moisture (makes it available to the tree for a longer period of time than stone).



Don't get a long, skinny one like you get in a tube. :-)

 

[OakSeeds]

The hardware cloth goes under the soil or on top of the soil? Do you remove it shortly after germination so that the tree doesn't grow through it and eventually get choked?
Thanks for the quick and detailed reply!

The hardware cloth goes on the top of the soil; I use cloth with 1/2 inch squares ... they slip right off the tree shortly after it breaks the soil (I have removed them 4 months later ... you could always cut them off with snips.

 

[yoderjac]

The landscaping material I use under the stone is water and air permeable. The idea is that rain filters through the stone and landscape material and it then limits evaporation. Seems like there are pluses and minuses to all the approaches.

 

[Ouachita]

Oak seeds,
Awesome direct seeding results. Is that screen wire around that tree trunk on the SWO? I agree that eliminating competition is the most important factor in pushing the young trees growth. Mike Smith the pecan guru at OSU did 2 studies that demonstrated that very well I thought. One study measured the height and caliper of pecan seedlings grown in grass with increasing radius of killed grass (Bermuda or fescue, I don't remember which) the greatest effect was evident in the first 2 feet (4' diameter) but they found increasing growth as far as they went, to 16' radius. The other study used potted Pecan seedlings of the same variety. They all got the same amount of fertilizer and light and water. 1/3 of the seedlings the water ran through a pot of potting soil with nothing growing in it. 1/3 of the seedlings got water that ran through a pot that had fescue grass growing in it. The last 1/3 got their water after it ran through a pot that had Bermuda grass growing in it. There was no grass growing in any of the pots that the seedlings were actually growing in. The seedlings that got their water after it passed through the pot with just potting soil in it grew almost twice as fast as the other 2/3s. I can't remember if the fescue or the Bermuda grass was the worst.
I have used 2-3 ft shelters for years and just last year and this year used the 5 footers. The 5 footers keep the deer from eating the chestnut foliage without a 5 ft tall wire cage with T post. This year I have had problems though with bears tearing up the tree tubes though getting paper wasp larvae. Then that tall skinny tree starts bending over because it is too top heavy. My preference is a a 2-3' tree tube with a 4ft tall fencing cage, 5 ft cage if a chestnut. I try to keep a 6' circle vegetation free with glyphoshpate. I like wood chip mulch but I wound never bring myself to try the rock mulch. I've got too many rocks already. I need to correct my earlier post about the young Dunstan chestnut that has 11 burs on it. I planted that seed in March 2014 and then transplanted it in July 2014. My son and I went to the farm today and I checked the label to be sure. He took some pictures and I will try to get him to help me post them soon

 

[Ouachita]

Jack,
In regards to chestnut seeds over a year old:
The fall of 2014 I bought some Chinese chestnuts from Chestnuts-R-Us in FL. In spring of 2015 work got too busy to get them planted, but this spring I planted some of them in 4" pots and the worst looking ones with broken and yellow and brown radicles I just planted in one big 30 gallon pot. Squirrels ate 40 of them in the 4" pots but the tall big pot full of the worst looking nuts made several nice seedlings and some small seedlings. Next year I am going to use the chlorox diluted 1-20 (5percent) and soak my chestnuts for 5 minutes before rinsing and stratifying them. I read some where about taking nuts out that are starting to mold and using the bleach solution to salvage them.

 

[Catscratch]

The hardware cloth goes on the top of the soil; I use cloth with 1/2 inch squares ... they slip right off the tree shortly after it breaks the soil (I have removed them 4 months later ... you could always cut them off with snips.

Exactly what I wanted to know. Thanks again for all the information!

 

[OakSeeds]

Oak seeds,
Awesome direct seeding results. Is that screen wire around that tree trunk on the SWO? I agree that eliminating competition is the most important factor in pushing the young trees growth.

Yes it is; I try to get something around the tree by the second winter ... mainly for rabbits. Mice and others don't seem to be much of a problem for me if I keep the area around the tree free of weeds and grass. As the first photo demonstrates, I pay a price (girdled tree) if I don't maintain the tree. I believe you are absolutely spot on about increasing the vegetation-free zone around the tree as the tree gets larger. I am very sensitive to that regarding pear trees which I mulch in a little different way; for pears, I use landscape fabric covered with rocks (30" out), then wood mulch and all of this topped with 2-3 year-old straw bricks (straw bales that have weathered break off in chunks like bricks). Thanks for helping others appreciate the value o0f controlling competition beyond 2-3 feet; your system sounds like it works great for you.

This tree is still alive; I am going to leave it as an experiment to see what it does with regard to growth.
I have 5 pear trees located in the area where this pear is growing and every one of the Lowes-bought trees produced at least one pear after only one year in the ground.

Ps ... the trunk protector in the pear photo is a cut-up bug screen off a wrecked semi. I am a big recycler ... I wish I had 20 of them to cut up!

 

[yoderjac]

Jack,
In regards to chestnut seeds over a year old:
The fall of 2014 I bought some Chinese chestnuts from Chestnuts-R-Us in FL. In spring of 2015 work got too busy to get them planted, but this spring I planted some of them in 4" pots and the worst looking ones with broken and yellow and brown radicles I just planted in one big 30 gallon pot. Squirrels ate 40 of them in the 4" pots but the tall big pot full of the worst looking nuts made several nice seedlings and some small seedlings. Next year I am going to use the chlorox diluted 1-20 (5percent) and soak my chestnuts for 5 minutes before rinsing and stratifying them. I read some where about taking nuts out that are starting to mold and using the bleach solution to salvage them.

I had negative results using bleach on chestnuts. I know many do it. I've found that the biggest factor in mold is whether they were exposed at the source. I got chestnuts for two sources one year. I handled them exactly the same. Both looked great when I got them. I tried the diluted bleach on a portion from both sources upon receipt. The bleach had no affect. Almost none of the chestnuts from source A had mold regardless of the bleach and almost all of the chestnuts from source B had mold issues.

Another thing I did a different year was to try to use bleach solution to remove mold from nuts that developed visible mold when I tried to force germination. In this case, I washed each chestnut individually in the bleach solution. Part way through my fingers started to burn. I then noticed all the hair was burned from my knuckles. The bleach solution had reacted with something on the chestnut causing a base/acid reaction. Few but some of those nuts eventually germinated, but most of them were deformed in some way. Many produced multiple small stems from the nut or some other oddity. They were all eventually culled.

I'm not trying some commercial antifungal but I have not used it enough to make a call either way on it.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Catscratch]

I'm going to have to take some notes on this thread. I do a lot of the same things, but there are some things that I don't do or haven't thought of before. Good info and keep it coming, pics are always good too.

 

[SIL hunter]

Jack/oakseeds, my cousin has a pear tree in his yard that is about 40' tall and 20 ' around, not sure what variety that would be but it is loaded with pears, can a guy pot the seed like and acorn or is there a trick to pears?

 

[ncstewart]

I'm not for sure cause I haven't done it yet with results but I have some seeds in the fridge that I got today from a local pear. I plan on doing them the same as I do the acorns.


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[yoderjac]

It depends on the acorns you are talking about. I just started a few pears from seed. They required cold stratification. The amount of cold stratification depends on the variety.

The tall one toward the right and the one in the front on the left leaning over the railing are pears I started from seed this spring. You can also see some apples I grafted to M111 and some chestnuts in the picture.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Bowsnbucks]

FWIW - I'm a user of pea-sized limestone gravel around our camp apple trees. We've planted 67 apples & crabs over the past 4 years. I cut landscape cloth at 40" x 40" and put a small slit in the middle. I slide it down over the newly planted whip, wrap the trunk with aluminum window screen and staple it shut, and cover the cloth ( all 40" ) with the gravel to a depth of 4". I've seen no problems with mice / voles, weed competition, or any heat-related problems from the stone. I would think apple trees are more delicate than oaks or chestnuts as far as heat ( from the stone ) is concerned. It gives us a " safe zone " around each tree. We have seen very good growth. Wood mulch for us would be mice / vole playground.

Not arguing with anyone's point of view, just adding some other info to the pot.

 

[H20fwler]

I do similar to what Oakseeds is doing with mulch, I do the aluminum screen as far up the trunk as I can and mulch good when I put the tree in. So far in the past couple years I haven't had any issues with mice or voles bothering, mulch helps hold the moisture in great and by end of summer mulch is really settled and thinner. Second year weeds start creeping in some but can easily be pulled and by then I'm usually done with supplemental watering unless it is crazy dry.

 

[trampledbyturtles]

TTT

Interesting read through for anyone looking for a habitat info fix.

 

[OakSeeds]

[QUOTE="SIL hunter, post: 118348, member: 1706" ...... can a guy pot the seed like and acorn or is there a trick to pears?[/QUOTE]

Try this trick; since pears have only about 4 good seeds - which need to go through a period of stratification (cold) - you can store the seeds in your crisper in the fridge (like chestnuts) or try the half-pear-face-up-method of direct seeding a pear. Get some pears off your cousin's tree, cut each pear in half - from the stem down - and direct seed the half pear the same way you would direct seed an oak or chestnut (do it this fall and let them overwinter in the ground). Be sure to place the cut side of the pear toward the surface of the soil about 3.5 inches deep (the loose soil should compact to about 2 inches over time). By leaving the seeds in the half pear, the flesh of the pear will stabilize the pear seeds in the planting hole (don't forget the landscape pot with the bottom removed). Just as with oak/chestnut acorns, you MUST provide protection for the half pear ... lots of critters like pears. If you made a perfect cut through the pear, there should be a couple of seeds in the planting hole. Try this method and tell us what happened. Good luck!