Dr. Gary Alt — an outdoors sinner or saint?

"Why hasnÂ’t another state offered him the opportunity to apply his management strategies in their state? " Well he was part of the hired group Dr. Deer brought along to change hunting in WI for the "better". I wish I had known some of this back then.
 
I would like to see the "articles from the coming weeks" with commentary from other wildlife biologists.
 
Do a google on "Gary Alt Deer Management".......lots of folks have bad karma on this guy. Quite a few articles that echo what we've been talking about here.

For example:

"He and the PGC have raped the state of its deer population. I equate them as aidding all the anti-hunters because they have wiped out the hunting in this state under teh name of wildlife management. I was raised in PA and learned to hynt their. I used to go from VA to PA every year to hunt but now it is not worth the money or time. check with any hunter in any area of this fine state and you will get the same answer. Mr Alt and the PGC have decimated hunting there and it will take many years to even bring it back to its heyday. He had his chance and blew it. I will no longer spend any money or time in hunting in this state as they do not understand the term management of the resources."
 
More on what Alt's been doing. He likely took off on some grand plan to improve forests by reducing deer??? I smell a rat.

News Releases
Biologist Dr. Gary Alt to Discuss Role of Wildlife Management in Ecocystem Maintenance
Bethlehem, Pa., March 8, 2007—Dr. Gary Alt, wildlife research biologist for the Pennsylvania Game Commission for over 27 years, will speak at Moravian College on Tuesday, March 20 at 7:30 p.m. in Prosser Auditorium. The lecture is titled “The Role of Wildlife Management in Ecocystem Maintenance.”

Alt first made his mark in wildlife management through his nationally known studies of bear biology. More recently Alt has shifted his focus to deer. “Deer management is one of the most important jobs assigned to the Game Commission,” says Alt. “It influences every Pennsylvanian and impacts virtually every wildlife species.” Presently he is working to build a consensus among deer management stakeholders on a new deer management program that seeks to reduce the deer density and improve the health of the herd as well as other wildlife.

Alt’s work has been publicized by the national media, including National Geographic World, the Wall Street Journal, national television stations such as Good Morning America and CBS Morning News. In addition, he has been the recipient of countless prestigious awards and honors from scholastic institutions and recognized for his contributions in wildlife management. The video documentary, “On the Trail of Pennsylvania’s Black Bears,” highlights the results of twenty years of Alt’s research.

Alt is a Pennsylvania native who grew up on a dairy farm in Lackawanna County. He has a doctorate in Forest Resources Science from West Virginia University and a master's degree in Wildlife Management from The Pennsylvania State University. He is an avid hunter, fisherman, photographer, and naturalist.

During the day Alt will interact with Moravian students and share his experiences and expertise. The evening presentation, sponsored by the Department of Biological Sciences, is free and open to the public. Prosser Auditorium in located in the Haupert Union Building which is at the corner of Locust and Monocacy Streets in Bethlehem, Pa.

Moravian College is a private, coeducational, selective liberal arts college located in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. Tracing its founding to 1742, it is recognized as America's sixth-oldest college. Visit the Web site at www.moravian.edu.
 
Alt was kind enough to train Cornicelli, Grund and D'Angelo for us here in MN.
 
Alt was kind enough to train Cornicelli, Grund and D'Angelo for us here in MN.
Yep. Bad Karma.
 
I've been a member of Trout Unlimited here in Pa. for over 35 yrs. Part of our monitoring program that we've had in my chapter is to measure the acidity of rainfall with an electronic meter designed for that purpose. ( Supplied by the regional chief of waterways to gauge the effect of acid rain on stream pH readings ). The rain here - read by me and a host of others - was as acidic as lemon juice. We had a Penn State professor come to one of our monthly meetings back in the 80's and he informed our members of studies done in Europe and here in the U.S by a number of universities, including PSU, that show acid rain deposition is a definite factor in forest regeneration. One of the tests ( simple ) done was to raise the net alkalinity of the soil by adding lime. With no other factors being altered, ( animal, plant, or structural ), seedlings cropped up at an increased rate. Tests were done at cellular levels within tree tissues ( leaves, cambium, twigs, roots, etc. ), and I don't remember all the scientific lingo involved, but the conclusion of many university scientists worldwide was that acid rain is definitely detrimental to forest health and regeneration.

So...... what the article in the link above mentioned about the effect of acid rain on forest regeneration in the Northeast states has been known for sometime now. For Alt to only blame deer as the culprit for lack of successful forest regeneration flies in the face of numerous studies done worldwide on forest health. Many of those affected countries don't have deer, or a " hunting axe " to grind either. Their main interest is in the health of their forests for the future, and all things that have an effect on them. If those countries don't have deer - or very few, and not whitetails - other factors MUST be to blame for poor forest regeneration.

All the other studies that have been done worldwide make Alt's deer - bashing look like a knee-jerk " solution " to a very complex, multi-faceted problem.
 
This may help shed some light on the agenda by Mr. Alt:

" He has a doctorate in Forest Resources Science from West Virginia University and a master's degree in Wildlife Management from The Pennsylvania State University."

He is a forestry guy first(his PhD) and a wildlife guy second(his Masters degree). He is Forestry and not just for the sake of studying the forests, his degree is Forest Resource Science, which I take to mean he specializes in the study of forest resources for the purpose of harvesting them. No wonder he jumped on board when the Certification train came to town. His real job is how to best exploit forest resources for a profit. Wow, and all this time I thought Kroll was the bad guy on our audit team.:eek:
 
And so this same discussion comes full circle.....after 15 years of herd reduction. SS/DD No results. Sad. Note the dates below.............

BOWFANATIC09-12-2002 07:47 PM
RE: Gary Alt (A Man With the "Right" Plan)
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Is this scenario that far down the road? Imagine a man and his son or daughter its the first day of deer season and they are watching a doe walking towards them the child asks dad can I shoot this one and the dad replies no I am sorry you cant we couldnt get a doe tag and she isnt legal. a little bit later here comes a four point again the child ask the same question and gets this answer no since they passed AR for everyone you cant. Now I know that it isnt passed for everyone yet but I have read that people want it to be. Now what do you think that child is going to think after seeing a couple deer and not able to shoot? Too many times like this in the woods and I will bet that the kid will quit and we have one last hunter in our ranks. With AR and herd reduction hand in hand this might not be to far down the road.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>


You bet your arse it isn't far down the road. Someone else mentioned , he understood that more does need to be killed to maintain the same herd level<img src=icon_smile_question.gif border=0 align=middle>
Do you think Gary Alt is doing this to maintain the same herd level? It couldn't be further from the truth! Like I said before his main agenda (along with many other states , including Wi) is to drastically reduce the herd level. They weren't getting the doe harvest they wanted to reduce the herd numbers , so walla! How can we push hunters to harvest more does? By forcing them to let younger bucks walk. His plan or agenda had nothing to do with creating monster bucks , he just sold it that way and alot of hunters are foolish enough to buy it.
I'd be willing to bet that next year Pa will have a record buck harvest , and the following year hunters will be forced to shoot a doe (maybe two) before harvesting a buck.

Rob/PA Bowyer09-12-2002 09:42 PM
RE: Gary Alt (A Man With the "Right" Plan)
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

You bet your arse it isn't far down the road. Someone else mentioned , he understood that more does need to be killed to maintain the same herd level<img src=icon_smile_question.gif border=0 align=middle>
Do you think Gary Alt is doing this to maintain the same herd level? It couldn't be further from the truth! Like I said before his main agenda (along with many other states , including Wi) is to drastically reduce the herd level. They weren't getting the doe harvest they wanted to reduce the herd numbers , so walla! How can we push hunters to harvest more does? By forcing them to let younger bucks walk. His plan or agenda had nothing to do with creating monster bucks , he just sold it that way and alot of hunters are foolish enough to buy it.
I'd be willing to bet that next year Pa will have a record buck harvest , and the following year hunters will be forced to shoot a doe (maybe two) before harvesting a buck.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>


I'm not sure how to read that quote, are you for or against?

IMHO, what's wrong with that? We are only now starting to do things that many top quality deer management private areas like Willow Point are doing and they have the best of all worlds. A healthy deer population, adequate buck to doe ratios, large bodied, healthy, heavy antlered bucks, good fawn production...etc

What PA is now finally starting to do is what all these areas have been doing for a long time. Gary Alt isn't pulling this stuff from a hat, it's been implemented and working many places.

(not necessarily directed at Bowfanactic)

<font color=blue>Good Luck and Good Shooting</font id=blue>

<font color=red>Rob</font id=red>

BOWFANATIC09-12-2002 11:00 PM
RE: Gary Alt (A Man With the "Right" Plan)
Rob

Right now I'm on the fence , leaning towards being against it<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

It just seems to me , that Gary Alt knew darn well how to get his plan across as being the &quot;answer&quot;. By targeting the trophy hunters (for lack of a better word) , or the QDM hunters (nothing wrong with QDM) , knowing full well that the above groups of people would be salivating at the thought of trophy bucks.
I , as a hunter , love having a huge deer herd. Are their more does than bucks? Yes! Would a closer buck to doe ratio make a better herd? Yes! But , as I said before , I dont believe for one second that his agenda is aimed at a quality herd. I truly believe his agenda is 100% aimed at reducing the herd dramatically by targeting does. He knows full well that by having a antler restriction , many many many more does will be harvested this year.

As far as the QDM topic , like willow creek , or our buffalo county , I cant argue with that. It has proven results , but in much smaller areas than the state of Pa or Wi. These areas dont go after the doe slaughter to reduce the herds. They keep a balanced harvest and they weed out the inferior bucks.

In Wi , at least they (DNR) have been honest about their intentions. They have told us all along that they need to reduce the size of our deer herd. Alot of hunters would say , why? we love having over a million deer , but when you get into the politics side of it , like the $$$$ that it costs our states by having an over population of deer , then you'll understand how their agenda and ours (hunters) are miles apart.

Lets say for example , (because I dont know Pa harvest or population numbers) that you have a deer herd of 1.6 million. Lets say your normal season harvest numbers are 600,000 deer with a 60% doe harvest each year. Lets say this year , out of 600,000 deer harvested , 90% are does. Lets say you have the harshest winter in many years and you have a 10% - 20% winter kill. You've already lost a great portion of the breeders. Now next year , I'm betting the buck harvest will be a record harvest. But , this is where you'll find out what Mr. Alts true intentions were , the next year , since mostly bucks were shot the year previous , it will be earn a buck. There will still be quality bucks around , but now everyone will have to shoot a doe or two before shooting a buck. In a few years it will be interesting to see if the size of Pa's deer herd is drastically smaller than it has been in the last 20 years or so.
00deer21.gif

&quot;Nocked,cocked & ready to rock&quot;
 
While I was typing my post above, Foggy posted a link at post #7 " unified sportsmen pa. " etc. After reading that link, one thing caught my eye. For years the PGC said it's deer harvest reports were backed up by hunter-submitted kill " report cards ". When hunters across the state challenged those numbers, the PGC said they had the report cards all on file - anyone could see them. I believe some hunting groups took them up on the offer, possibly some reporters as well, because at the height of the furor over harvest numbers, the PGC then came out and said the harvest numbers were ESTIMATES !! Now everything is an " estimate ". When they backtracked 180 degrees - all credibility was lost. Alt became a pariah and was laughed / ridden out of town on a rail. What followed was a big scramble / re-tooling of deer policies to tailor doe tags more toward reality, and to restore their
( PGC's ) image.

I talked in person to a game warden while on a Game Lands tract I'd hunted for years. This was after the doe tag " blitz ". I had run into this warden numerous times over the years on that Game Lands so we knew each other somewhat. I told him I wasn't seeing much in the way of deer sign or deer for that matter. I recounted hunts and numbers of deer seen in the past there, and he responded .... " Yeah, there sure aren't the deer here that there used to be are there? " This was at a time when the PGC ( agency-wise ) was telling the public " we have way too many deer. Their numbers must be reduced. " That warden went against his own agency's public policy by telling / admitting what he did to me. The tone he used in telling me sounded heart-sick to me. He had stewarded that area for years and had kept a close eye on it. HE knew that land for years and I knew that land for years, so there was no attempt at deception. I admired the hell out of him for that - and still do. I've never divulged his name, and won't - because of that honesty.
 
An email I just got from a regeneration specialist at Penn State.

Dear Mr. Johnson: The simple answer to your last two questions is no. Most would agree that the deer herd reductions begun by Gary Alt have not resulted in significant improvements in the regeneration of acid sensitive and commercially important tree species such as red oak and sugar maple particularly on public lands. An objective review of forest inventory (FIA) data would lead one to this conclusion. Acid tolerant species such as black cherry and red maple are doing fine as they were before Alt's program. Proponents of the deer only hypothesis to explain regeneration and plant biodiversity problems will tell you that there are " legacy effects" from years of overbrowsing and that we now have "legacy recalcitrant vegetation" that are the result of too many deer and that it will take decades to overcome this. These ideas are hogwash. Wide spread use of herbicides to kill this vegetation have for the most part failed indicating that it is not the vegetation, but the soil environment that is preventing the growth of desired plants. Soil liming has been shown to overcome these issues, but nobody on the deer only side of the issue wants to talk about it. The sad truth is that, in those areas with the most severe problems, deer numbers are controlled by habitat quality not hunting. Changing deer harvest quotas may have some small benefits in years of mild winters and good acorn crops , but that will be about it. The forest has been so damaged by past and current forestry practices, early periods of extreme wild fires and acid rain so as to render it incapable of supporting diverse plant and animal communities. Efforts to remedy this situation should not focus on deer at all ,but on those forest management actions required to affect a positive change in forest soils. The limiting factors to achieving a productive, diverse forest ecosystem have very little to do with deer.

Dr Bill Sharpe
 
:eek::eek::eek:What! What! What!

what.png
 
Not to make excuses for Alt or any of these other groups, but apparently this debate and agenda has been going for a long time in the State of PA. Note the date at the bottom!

"A bill was introduced in the last Legislature through which it was intended to give the Game Commission the authority to declare an open season for female deer during a limited period, say one or two days, at the close of the season in counties of the state where these animals, because of the protection now accorded, had become a nuisance and a menace to growing crops and fruit trees. The Legislature saw fit to reject this proposition, because, as some of the members said, such an act would call to the woods innumerable irresponsible hunters who would shoot at any and everything they saw move, with the result that many human beings would be killed and wounded. This may be, but our female deer are increasing in certain sections to a degree that if permitted much longer will endanger and in some cases make impossible the raising of crops of any kind in that section." - Game Commission Executive Secretary Joseph Kalbfus, 1918 Annual Report
 
Do a google on "Gary Alt Deer Management".......lots of folks have bad karma on this guy. Quite a few articles that echo what we've been talking about here.

For example:

"He and the PGC have raped the state of its deer population. I equate them as aidding all the anti-hunters because they have wiped out the hunting in this state under teh name of wildlife management. I was raised in PA and learned to hynt their. I used to go from VA to PA every year to hunt but now it is not worth the money or time. check with any hunter in any area of this fine state and you will get the same answer. Mr Alt and the PGC have decimated hunting there and it will take many years to even bring it back to its heyday. He had his chance and blew it. I will no longer spend any money or time in hunting in this state as they do not understand the term management of the resources."

the bold print couldnt be further from the truth. Lots of parts of the state had decent numbers and still do, while other parts of the state had and still have TONS of deer.....but alas other parts of the state are indeed witnessing the lowest deer numbers in recent history due in large part to gross overharvest. Basically most of the southern half of the state had strong deer numbers before and still do. the northern half which is where most of the forested land is located is where the reductions had significant impacts and dramaticly decreased deer populations. In PA the timeframe when Alt started the "new deer management program" is often referred to as the deer wars. People on both sides were entrenched in a battle. I never got on board with the Alt bashing...because i was seeing and killing deer every year....which is something i still do. The area where my land is and nearby areas where i have permission on private property have plenty of deer and in fact do need a doe harvest. However, just a few miles away I do also hunt on public land, both DCNR owned State Forest Land and PGC owned State Game Lands. These public lands have very low deer densities now.....doe harvest pressure was too much during the peak of antlerless tag allocations and 12 days of rilfe season. The past 3 yrs we have gone from 12 days of rifle concurrent bucks and does, to 5 days and the doe tag allocations have dropped considerably. So steps are being taken to relieve some of that pressure...we shall see if these changes make a big difference or not and see how long they stay in effect for.

I'm still not on board with Alt as the boogey man....he was too far down the totem pole. Was he a just a "hired gun" and eventually a convenient scape goat? I think most likely. I just cant see him as the grand wizard, head honcho, decision maker that ultimately put this all in play. It seems likely that at most Alt was a tool in a tool box. That said, he is a guy that is now considered "buyer beware" by other state agencies so he is working in the private sector.
 
Not to make excuses for Alt or any of these other groups, but apparently this debate and agenda has been going for a long time in the State of PA. Note the date at the bottom!

"A bill was introduced in the last Legislature through which it was intended to give the Game Commission the authority to declare an open season for female deer during a limited period, say one or two days, at the close of the season in counties of the state where these animals, because of the protection now accorded, had become a nuisance and a menace to growing crops and fruit trees. The Legislature saw fit to reject this proposition, because, as some of the members said, such an act would call to the woods innumerable irresponsible hunters who would shoot at any and everything they saw move, with the result that many human beings would be killed and wounded. This may be, but our female deer are increasing in certain sections to a degree that if permitted much longer will endanger and in some cases make impossible the raising of crops of any kind in that section." - Game Commission Executive Secretary Joseph Kalbfus, 1918 Annual Report

Thats exactly right....i really cant see Alt as the boogey man....there is way more to it than just him and his underlings...and there is money trails to be found as well. He wasnt even that close to the top of the PGC chain of command. People above him made decisions and gave direction....he is more of a pawn and scape goat.
 
This may help shed some light on the agenda by Mr. Alt:

" He has a doctorate in Forest Resources Science from West Virginia University and a master's degree in Wildlife Management from The Pennsylvania State University."

He is a forestry guy first(his PhD) and a wildlife guy second(his Masters degree). He is Forestry and not just for the sake of studying the forests, his degree is Forest Resource Science, which I take to mean he specializes in the study of forest resources for the purpose of harvesting them. No wonder he jumped on board when the Certification train came to town. His real job is how to best exploit forest resources for a profit. Wow, and all this time I thought Kroll was the bad guy on our audit team.:eek:

Gary Alt is not a forester. He has a PhD in wildlife biology, more specifically black bears. I am not taking any sides is this fight, but fact are important when conducting a witch hunt.
 
I totally see him as a goat from the things I have read so far on the subject. In the beginning I'm not even sure he knew how deep he was going to get on this reduction thing. He sure sold it to the public though, at least for a while.
 
I think some great information is coming to the forefront. May the errors of one state not be reproduced in another. The more we can get people from the science and research community to say what is hogwash the better the case we can all make to our legislators. I sure wish I knew someone in a graduate economics program, I would love to see one do their thesis on the economic impact if the forestry and insurance industry get their way leaving a handful of dpsm and landowners and sportsmen bailing ship on those regions and what it will do to property values, local business an overall reduced tax revenue.
 
Top