balsam fir under red pines

[bueller]

I have some red pines planted in rows that are quite tall. Right now the outside rows have some scrubby oaks and shrubs creating a thin screening effect but I'd like to enhance this. I've read that balsam firs can do quite well in shady understories. What do you guys think about planting a bunch of balsams to develop a screen along the outside edges of maturing pines?

 

[Honker]

They will grow in the understory, but they tend to not to get very thick like a tree grown in full sun. I think if you stick to the edges where they get some sun they will give you a decent screen.

 

[rocksnstumps]

Stick to outer two rows for best chance. Could show ya pics of runty trees planted in 1962 where the few suvvivors planted the third row away from an opening next to some red pine are maybe 3" dbh. Course those were white pine.

 

[bueller]

Stick to outer two rows for best chance. Could show ya pics of runty trees planted in 1962 where the few suvvivors planted the third row away from an opening next to some red pine are maybe 3" dbh. Course those were white pine.

I was thinking a row directly in line with the first row of pines and maybe a row in between the first and second row.

 

[Big Snow Man]

Oh the deer should love those as a appetizer

 

[Bill]

Never planted either but hemlock and Amercan beech seem to tolerate heavy shade.
Beech obviously isn't an evergreen but the darn things hold their dead leaves until spring.

 

[Bill]

Why not cut some of the Reds and see what sprouts?

 

[bueller]

Why not cut some of the Reds and see what sprouts?

If it were a large plantation I would definitely do so as the scrub oak and volunteer pine reclaims ground like this fairly quickly after pine harvests in the area. The thing is these "plantations" are only a couple rows deep themselves. I don't know if they were originally planted for screening, timber, variety, or what.

 

[bueller]

Oh the deer should love those as a appetizer

Can't be any worse than the white pines I planted in front of these same reds the last couple years.

 

[tynimiller]

Honestly...if in a spot you don't desire long term oaks dropping acorns I've top cut oaks at about head height...trained branches present for licking branches/scrapes and the things never die.

 

[Nova]

I thought about doing this with our mature red pines, but the forester talked me out of it. He said that mature red pines rain some kind of toxin in spring time that doesn't allow another pine to survive and if they do they don't do well. Might want to check into that. I have tried white pines on the outside edge of our reds and they didn't make it, so I tried again with the same result and both times they were fenced off so it wasn't browse that killed them. I didn't look into it any farther after he told me that, so it is by no means fact.

 

[JFK52]

I have about 60 acres of plantation planted red pines. When I did my every third row thinning a few years back I made sure the harvester took the first row adjacent to every road and fire lane. The sunlight can now penetrate to the understory. I have a tremendous amount of black cap berries and elderberries that have come up in those openings. If you want to try anything, cut the pines and you will be surprised what comes up. Just like Bill said.

 

[Big Snow Man]

If it were a large plantation I would definitely do so as the scrub oak and volunteer pine reclaims ground like this fairly quickly after pine harvests in the area. The thing is these "plantations" are only a couple rows deep themselves. I don't know if they were originally planted for screening, timber, variety, or what.

Well you will be fattening them up for sure with that smorgasbord

 

[bueller]

I thought about doing this with our mature red pines, but the forester talked me out of it. He said that mature red pines rain some kind of toxin in spring time that doesn't allow another pine to survive and if they do they don't do well. Might want to check into that. I have tried white pines on the outside edge of our reds and they didn't make it, so I tried again with the same result and both times they were fenced off so it wasn't browse that killed them. I didn't look into it any farther after he told me that, so it is by no means fact.

Interesting, I have never heard of this. Regardless of what I end up doing with/without the balsams I hope the whites I put in 20ft or so in front of the reds survive. The ones not browsed by the deer look real good so far.

edit....just did some quick searching and it appears that red pines do have an allelopathic effect that may inhibit growth in their understory.

 

[ruskbuckss]

I think that is a good idea. I have a screen along my road of mostly scotch pine, with some white spruce mixed in. There is one area that has aspen that resprouts so thick it choked out all the pines and they died. I started transplanting balsams from my woods to this area. They are doing well and I might be turning the tide against the aspen since they cant tolerate shade. Also the deer wont browse the balsams on my land no matter what. I have heard its different in other states thou.