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[Bill Loser]

Nope, never changed my mind. You clearly are struggling here. You hyperbolized claims of massive election fraud have clearly been debunked. That does not mean that there is zero election fraud in every election. There is and always will be some level of election fraud from from both left and right. The question is whether it has sufficient statistical significance to have an impact on the outcome and it doesn't. We have the best and most fair and honest election system in the world but that doesn't mean it is perfect.

I understand that is is pretty easy to get caught up in the self licking ice cream cone on both the right and the left. Nothing that I or anyone can say that can help folks in either whirlpool. It is kind of like having a friend on drugs, you and intervein as much as you want, but until they hit bottom, if they do, and are ready for help, you can't do much.

So you back up your argument switch with a double down on the switch? Nice move! You got me! Even though you clearly stated election fraud has been debunked( which it clearly hasn't except for in lefty circles.... because they"won". Remember the russian conspiracy of 2016? The one that WAS totally debunked?) . And then backed up and said election fraud is common in all elections. Which is it? Either its common or its been debunked in this one, which is it...
Still waiting on the complimenting Putin thing......

 

[yoderjac]

Evidently, once the cool-aid has been consumed there is no cure. Too bad I've seen no one on the far left posting to this thread so I could have the same words for them. Lunacy on both sides.

It all makes me nostalgic for Regan Republicans and Blue Dog Democrats! Repeating lies on both sides doesn't make them truths, but some will fall for the repetition.

 

[H20fwler]

Jack, that you can seriously doubt that there was election fraud at this point does not give your argument any credibility.
There has been plenty of evidence..video, investigations and on and on since to credibly verify that it did happen.

That most of the corrupt MSM denies and calls it a “conspiracy theory” only shows their blatant bias.

Anyone who thinks it didn’t happen or that it hasn’t been going on for a long time doesn’t want the truth.
Most of big business, politicians, MSM and social media are all rigging the system to their benefit.
The only difference between the USA and third world countries is we do it better..or at least had until Trump pulled the curtain back.

What we all need to be working on together is figuring out a way to clean it up and get America back on track before it’s to late.

 

[Bill Loser]

Nope, never changed my mind. You clearly are struggling here. You hyperbolized claims of massive election fraud have clearly been debunked. That does not mean that there is zero election fraud in every election. There is and always will be some level of election fraud from from both left and right. The question is whether it has sufficient statistical significance to have an impact on the outcome and it doesn't. We have the best and most fair and honest election system in the world but that doesn't mean it is perfect.

I understand that is is pretty easy to get caught up in the self licking ice cream cone on both the right and the left. Nothing that I or anyone can say that can help folks in either whirlpool. It is kind of like having a friend on drugs, you and intervein as much as you want, but until they hit bottom, if they do, and are ready for help, you can't do much.

So you back up your argument switch with a double down on the switch? Nice move! You got me! Even though you clearly stated election fraud has been debunked( which it clearly hasn't except for in lefty circles.... because they"won". Remember the russian conspiracy of 2016? The one that WAS totally debunked?) . And then backed up and said election fraud is common in all elections. Which is it? Either its common or its been debunked in this one, which is it...
Still waiting on the complimenting Putin thing

Evidently, once the cool-aid has been consumed there is no cure. Too bad I've seen no one on the far left posting to this thread so I could have the same words for them. Lunacy on both sides.

It all makes me nostalgic for Regan Republicans and Blue Dog Democrats! Repeating lies on both sides doesn't make them truths, but some will fall for the repetition.

No kool aid from this end. Just facts. Plenty of them. Add that to the fun im having using you against yourself and i could do this all day.

 

[chummer]

Jack, that you can seriously doubt that there was election fraud at this point does not give your argument any credibility.
There has been plenty of evidence..video, investigations and on and on since to credibly verify that it did happen.

That most of the corrupt MSM denies and calls it a “conspiracy theory” only shows their blatant bias.

Anyone who thinks it didn’t happen or that it hasn’t been going on for a long time doesn’t want the truth.
Most of big business, politicians, MSM and social media are all rigging the system to their benefit.
The only difference between the USA and third world countries is we do it better..or at least had until Trump pulled the curtain back.

What we all need to be working on together is figuring out a way to clean it up and get America back on track before it’s to late.

One could even argue, and be right,that the suppression of Hunter Biden and 10% for the big guy was election fraud. Most on left still have no idea of the Biden influence for cash dealings with multiple foreign countries. Currently being investigated by the FBI and state of DE. Just a crazy bet that Joe will be dead before they conclude those investigations.

 

[yoderjac]

Jack, that you can seriously doubt that there was election fraud at this point does not give your argument any credibility.
There has been plenty of evidence..video, investigations and on and on since to credibly verify that it did happen.

That most of the corrupt MSM denies and calls it a “conspiracy theory” only shows their blatant bias.

Anyone who thinks it didn’t happen or that it hasn’t been going on for a long time doesn’t want the truth.
Most of big business, politicians, MSM and social media are all rigging the system to their benefit.
The only difference between the USA and third world countries is we do it better..or at least had until Trump pulled the curtain back.

What we all need to be working on together is figuring out a way to clean it up and get America back on track before it’s to late.

So if massive election fraud has been going on for all these years until "Trump pulled the curtain back", why have we had so many shifts in who controlled the executive and both legislative branches in my lifetime? Are you saying elections are fraudulent is in one direction in one election and then the other the next? I don't believe there was any curtain to be pulled back. It was simply a case of saying, If I win one year, elections were legitimate, but if I lose 4 years later, they were fraudulent.

Yep, the refs are great when we win, but they were bias when we lose. In reality, refs are human and not perfect, but there is a far cry from making bad calls from time to time and biasing the outcome of the game.

 

[b116757]

Jack, that you can seriously doubt that there was election fraud at this point does not give your argument any credibility.
There has been plenty of evidence..video, investigations and on and on since to credibly verify that it did happen.

That most of the corrupt MSM denies and calls it a “conspiracy theory” only shows their blatant bias.

Anyone who thinks it didn’t happen or that it hasn’t been going on for a long time doesn’t want the truth.
Most of big business, politicians, MSM and social media are all rigging the system to their benefit.
The only difference between the USA and third world countries is we do it better..or at least had until Trump pulled the curtain back.

What we all need to be working on together is figuring out a way to clean it up and get America back on track before it’s to late.

I agree with this sentiment but there are far to many people entrenched financially and emotionally in the current corrupt system to allow it to fall. Canada is a prime example of what I’m saying. Blatant human rights violations in the past month and no media coverage and no world leaders calling a spade a spade. I see the writing on the wall boys freedom/democracy is just antiquated ideal it will go the way of the newspaper in the history books. Their next huge push will be digital currency only, outlawing cash so they can crush anyone instantly that disagrees with them again one only has to look north to Canada last month to confirm this is what will happen.

 

[b116757]

So if massive election fraud has been going on for all these years until "Trump pulled the curtain back", why have we had so many shifts in who controlled the executive and both legislative branches in my lifetime? Are you saying elections are fraudulent is in one direction in one election and then the other the next? I don't believe there was any curtain to be pulled back. It was simply a case of saying, If I win one year, elections were legitimate, but if I lose 4 years later, they were fraudulent.

Yep, the refs are great when we win, but they were bias when we lose. In reality, refs are human and not perfect, but there is a far cry from making bad calls from time to time and biasing the outcome of the game.

Only two presidents in my lifetime that where not part of the establishment have been Reagan and Trump. Bush Junior should of had a D behind his name it was so bad.

 

[Bill Loser]

So if massive election fraud has been going on for all these years until "Trump pulled the curtain back", why have we had so many shifts in who controlled the executive and both legislative branches in my lifetime? Are you saying elections are fraudulent is in one direction in one election and then the other the next? I don't believe there was any curtain to be pulled back. It was simply a case of saying, If I win one year, elections were legitimate, but if I lose 4 years later, they were fraudulent.

Yep, the refs are great when we win, but they were bias when we lose. In reality, refs are human and not perfect, but there is a far cry from making bad calls from time to time and biasing the outcome of the game.

Massive election fraud hasn't been going on consistently until these last few years. 2016 they didn't cheat any more than usual simply because the were convinced that Crooked Hillary would win. Which is why the cooked up the Russian hoax to delegitimize the election. This past election they were taking no chances, it was rampant and it was in your face Chicago style election fraud all across the country. Suitcases of ballots under tables, mysterious water main breaks, 100% nursing home voting oddly enough all 100% for Biden.... weird , here in Wisconsin we had fraud in the park, we had 250,000 illegal names on the voter roles that the liberal controlled wec refused to purge even though it was ordered to by the courts, we had 3 am ballot drops in Milwaukee which oddly enough amounted to exactly how many votes Biden needed to "win" Wisconsin. But you are right Jack, this has all been debunked, or it hasn't , or it has... I don't remember, which way are you on the next post?

 

[yoderjac]

Massive election fraud hasn't been going on consistently until these last few years. 2016 they didn't cheat any more than usual simply because the were convinced that Crooked Hillary would win. Which is why the cooked up the Russian hoax to delegitimize the election. This past election they were taking no chances, it was rampant and it was in your face Chicago style election fraud all across the country. Suitcases of ballots under tables, mysterious water main breaks, 100% nursing home voting oddly enough all 100% for Biden.... weird , here in Wisconsin we had fraud in the park, we had 250,000 illegal names on the voter roles that the liberal controlled wec refused to purge even though it was ordered to by the courts, we had 3 am ballot drops in Milwaukee which oddly enough amounted to exactly how many votes Biden needed to "win" Wisconsin. But you are right Jack, this has all been debunked, or it hasn't , or it has... I don't remember, which way are you on the next post?

Oh...I see, the left and right are in cahoots! I feel like I'm watching an episode of "Finding Bigfoot". What was that?....I heard something...Look, those branches are broken...And that smell....I know big foot is around...Let's talk to the expert from the institute of paranormal activity...The room feels cold...spirit energy is high...

 

[Bill Loser]

Oh...I see, the left and right are in cahoots! I feel like I'm watching an episode of "Finding Bigfoot". What was that?....I heard something...Look, those branches are broken...And that smell....I know big foot is around...Let's talk to the expert from the institute of paranormal activity...The room feels cold...spirit energy is high...

Who the F sid anything like that? Yet another lefty tactic. When all else is lost completely change the discussion.. nice move Jack.

 

[b116757]

I find it particularly interesting that if you Google “I did that” this image almost doesn’t appear in the results it clearly the most popular image of “I did that” in history but it has almost zero search engine hits???? Geewhiz I’m not to bright of bulb but even I got to think Google is intentionally blocking images not in line with their political beliefs.

 

[chummer]

They used Covid as an excuse for mail in ballots. They then rounded up the ballots. Not sure why this so hard for people to understand. It could easily be debunked, let’s just verify signatures on every mail in ballot. Oh wait, we can’t do that, so no fraud happened.

 

[Jerry-B-WI]

Massive election fraud hasn't been going on consistently until these last few years. 2016 they didn't cheat any more than usual simply because the were convinced that Crooked Hillary would win. Which is why the cooked up the Russian hoax to delegitimize the election. This past election they were taking no chances, it was rampant and it was in your face Chicago style election fraud all across the country. Suitcases of ballots under tables, mysterious water main breaks, 100% nursing home voting oddly enough all 100% for Biden.... weird , here in Wisconsin we had fraud in the park, we had 250,000 illegal names on the voter roles that the liberal controlled wec refused to purge even though it was ordered to by the courts, we had 3 am ballot drops in Milwaukee which oddly enough amounted to exactly how many votes Biden needed to "win" Wisconsin. But you are right Jack, this has all been debunked, or it hasn't , or it has... I don't remember, which way are you on the next post?

The WEC was created by republicans, it's bipartisan three dems and three republicans. Now that the republicans didn't get what they want in the election they want to do away with the WEC.

Why won't any judges take on the stolen election lawsuits? Maybe they're all on the payroll too?

I'm guessing you have a shrine to Trump, Walker, Vos, and Fitzgerald in your house.

 

[bwoods11]

In Pennsylvania the Democrats are fighting so hard to have the voting machines audited ?? Why ? If they won with no fraud ? They would welcome the chance to shut up Trump !!

 

[jsasker007]

They used Covid as an excuse for mail in ballots. They then rounded up the ballots. Not sure why this so hard for people to understand. It could easily be debunked, let’s just verify signatures on every mail in ballot. Oh wait, we can’t do that, so no fraud happened.

It's not hard for anyone to understand but it's how they won the election so they have to keep the mail-in ballots to ensure we never have another Republican president. They thought they had it rigged for Hillary but somehow it failed that time around. The last election worked for them. Republicans are the responsible adults and the Dems are trying to force things on the people that fail miserably every time and are only good for the crooked politicians pushing things through. If everyone carried a gun you would be hard pressed to find crimes that are present everyday now and have become acceptable as dialy life without a second thought. New green deal=IMPOSSIBLE. Kamala Harris couldn't manage a library.

 

[H20fwler]

So if massive election fraud has been going on for all these years until "Trump pulled the curtain back", why have we had so many shifts in who controlled the executive and both legislative branches in my lifetime? Are you saying elections are fraudulent is in one direction in one election and then the other the next? I don't believe there was any curtain to be pulled back. It was simply a case of saying, If I win one year, elections were legitimate, but if I lose 4 years later, they were fraudulent.

Yep, the refs are great when we win, but they were bias when we lose. In reality, refs are human and not perfect, but there is a far cry from making bad calls from time to time and biasing the outcome of the game.

No jack, I didn’t imply any of that.
All I said is that Trump exposed it all, and he did.

I think both sides surely cheat at about everything and are blatantly corrupt along with big biz MSM and all the rest.

Trump with all his faults was NOT a politician or a political insider. That is what scared the hell out of the DC machine works/MSM/social media and big biz. He let the genie out of the bottle and no matter what they have done to silence and smear him it’s out and won’t be put back.

He was naively honest and open talking about and exposing it.
When he got on rants about other things he was sure crass and rude with no polish in his speaking but he told it like he saw it.
No angel by any means and that he was so successful in big biz himself no way he didn’t cheat and cut corners somewhere but he was damn good at hiding it.
Far from perfect he was a very strong leader and made excellent decisions as far as our country was concerned and put it first as far as I could see. And did it with all the mud being slung at him at the same time while seeming to enjoy the dust up.

The statement I put out is what are we going to do with this information and that we need to fix it
So do not try and twist any of my words.

 

[chummer]

The election was so legit let’s federalize all elections and make sure you don’t need an ID to vote. iD and vaccination card to join society but not to vote.

 

[yoderjac]

Who the F sid anything like that? Yet another lefty tactic. When all else is lost completely change the discussion.. nice move Jack.

If only Regan and Trump are non-establishment presidents, and all the elections were fraudulent, then both sides must have conspired for the rest of the presidencies...

Just keep repeating the same stuff ...

 

[yoderjac]

No jack, I didn’t imply any of that.
All I said is that Trump exposed it all, and he did.

I think both sides surely cheat at about everything and are blatantly corrupt along with big biz MSM and all the rest.

Trump with all his faults was NOT a politician or a political insider. That is what scared the hell out of the DC machine works/MSM/social media and big biz. He let the genie out of the bottle and no matter what they have done to silence and smear him it’s out and won’t be put back.

He was naively honest and open talking about and exposing it.
When he got on rants about other things he was sure crass and rude with no polish in his speaking but he told it like he saw it.
No angel by any means and that he was so successful in big biz himself no way he didn’t cheat and cut corners somewhere but he was damn good at hiding it.
Far from perfect he was a very strong leader and made excellent decisions as far as our country was concerned and put it first as far as I could see. And did it with all the mud being slung at him at the same time while seeming to enjoy the dust up.

The statement I put out is what are we going to do with this information and that we need to fix it
So do not try and twist any of my words.

I agree with some of that. I do see Trump as outside mainstream politics and like that particular characteristic. I don't see him as having any insight into elections. I see him more as an opportunist than a Republican. He was and supported Democrats when they held all to power in New York. He ran as a Republican because is was an opportunity for self-promotion. He skillfully manipulated the press, made them an enemy that always gave him air-time because of his outrageous comments. This only served to emphasize how much of an outsider to the political norm. He legitimately won the election using the same system where he legitimately lost. Of course every interest group tries to manipulate elections as much as they can, bot domestic and foreign. That does not constitute a fraudulent election.

I didn't mean to twist your words at all. Personally, I tend toward a Regan Republican with a libertarian streak. I agreed with many but not all of the policies under the Trump administration but found the rhetoric highly divicine and toxic. By far the best thing that came from that administration was the outsourcing of supreme court appointments. They worked out quite well and will keep the far left in check for many years.

As far as the election system goes, it is kind of like the dollar. It only has as much value as we have trust in it. Undermining only serves anarchists. Reforming it is a different story. One problem is that there is a federal/state tension when it comes to elections. The constitution gives a lot of power to state legislatures when it comes to elections. There is a lot of good in that in terms of states rights. A federalized system cedes more power to the federal government. The more power in general that is ceded to the federal government the less local control we have over our own lives. One of the best concepts Regan held was deregulation. We need the federal government for many things like the common defense and for interstate commerce, but the interstate commerce clause have been well over used to justify legislation.

I certainly don't have the answers, but the fantasies pushed by the far left and right don't help us solve these problems. Of course our election system could be better than it is, but many seem to make the perfect the enemy of the good...

Thanks,

jack